@varjolintu@lemmy.ml
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@varjolintu@lemmy.ml
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Look bae, varjolintu posted literal traffic cams since that’s the level of first party sources we need for people on these fringe websites to put down their Marxist books and tinfoil hats.

Try to understand that if Russians are pouring into Finland despite major infrastructure problems, the situation in Russia is sub-optimal. But I think you know that, given every comment you’ve made in this thread has danced around that topic.

Nice straw man. I don’t think I argued anywhere that the situation in Russia is in any way optimal. However, anybody with a couple of braincells to bang together realizes that situation in Europe is far worse. Russia is largely self sufficient in food and energy production, and has a working domestic industry. Europe now has none of these things, and it’s not even winter yet. European leadership has provided no solutions for these problems.

so why you’re not in Russia, mr sotnikov?

Please do elaborate on what you’re trying to say here mr anonymous coward?

edit: also given that I want this war to end, it’s weird that you appear to be telling me to go fight in it. Seems to me that the people who keep advocating for escalations are the ones who should be packing their bags and going to fight on the frontlines.

You are just as pseudonymous here, does that make you a coward as well?

for people who don’t know how to use google I guess I would be

are you ok?

speaking personally, i’d much rather prefer some electricity interruptions over being conscripted

A cold, dark house is a temporary state next to a cold, dark coffin.

idk what you mean by that

@pingveno@lemmy.ml
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I am, as @cult noted, agreeing with you. A cold house and a blackout is a temporary discomfort, but death is permanent. Besides, I’m sure the front lines are going to be as cold and miserable as any household in Finland come winter.

yeah, that’s true unfortunately :/

I think they’re agreeing with you

The way things are going Europeans could be looking at conscription in the near future as well. The more this conflict escalates the closer we get to WW3, and it’s absolutely insane to see people cheering this on.

European countries dont have the capacity to arm such a number of soldiers, let alone train them.

The US has been the key to the rapid training of the Ukrainians. As much as the US military is a bit of a paper tiger, it’s still got a ton of resources and preparedness for things like this

It took them 8 years and most of the troops + equipment are already destroyed after half a year.

Same exact comment holds for Russia. Crimea was 8 years ago and they’ve lost a lot of troops and equipment

@varjolintu@lemmy.ml
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Yeah, enjoy energy shortages along with the refugees from Russia. I’m sure nothing but great times ahead for Finland here.

@varjolintu@lemmy.ml
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We certainly will see what happens in a few months, and if the experts that were wrong about everything until now will suddenly end up being right about energy security.

Looks like Russia got backing from its partners at the Samarkand meeting to expand the operation in Ukraine into a full scale war.

Or you know the west could just stop the insanity and get Ukraine to negotiate. It’s absolutely amazing seeing the west destroy itself over this.

@pingveno@lemmy.ml
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That goes both ways. Russia could stop invading Ukraine. Russia, not the West, chose to go to war.

I don’t get what this proves. That Russia is so war thirsty that it can be baited with little effort?

This isn’t supposed to prove anything else than the fact that there are people in the US and NATO who are profiting from such a war. Apparently, you agree on that, because you say that Russia can be baited easily.

What kind of effort do you mean with “little effort”? Do you have something particularly in mind when saying that, or do you mean that you have a general feeling that Russia is easily baited by the NATO into a war?

If you bother to RTFA, then you’ll see the report actually says that Russia is reluctant to get into a conflict with the west.

And the article never suggests that the Russians would escalate to an all out invasion, just to backing separatist forces plus a few Russian troops. It seems to have erred all around.

And NATO could stop making Ukraine a proxywar basecamp against Russia, and trying to Balkanise Russia. You know right how that works?

This isn’t really accurate though. It’s pretty clear this is a proxy war for the US to weaken Russia. NATO has made major expansions in Europe at least 3 times in the past two decades and each time it’s been denounced by basically the whole world. Putin might lie to his own people but on the foreign stage he’s been completely honest the entire time. I won’t go as far as to say “he had no other choice” but I do think it’s important to highlight the fact that Biden has publicly discussed the plan to “weaken” Russia.

Zelenskyy ran on a platform to make peace with Russia and they were literally in peace talks about to finalize a plan. It was NATO that went in and disrupted that

I’m not trying to defend Putin by any means, but I just think the framing of “it was Russia that chose to go to war” is painting an overly simplistic picture

Sure, the point is that Russia will not stop invading Ukraine, and the west can’t make Russia stop. So, now the question is how anyone benefits from the war being dragged on and escalated?

@pingveno@lemmy.ml
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Okay, but blame that on Russia, not on the West or the Ukrainian government. Ukraine is not obligated to cede territory to invaders, and your framing of the West’s support is just blame shifting away from Russia. The choice and the blame lies solely with Russia. They could pull out tomorrow if they wanted to.

Also factor in that Ukraine’s government wants to put this to rest for good. The last thing they want is Russia coming back for another bite at the apple. They’re going to be less than willing to settle for less than victory, especially if they feel like Russia or Russian puppets will violate it.

This sort of moralizing is not constructive. I don’t really see what difference it makes whom you choose to blame for this. The reality of the situation is that the west and Russia can’t agree whose sphere of influence Ukraine will be in. The west overthrew the government in Ukraine in 2014 which led to a civil war in Ukraine. Now Russia is taking advantage of that to overthrow the regime that the west is backing.

The reality of the situation is that the west is not capable of producing weapons and ammunition at the same rate as Russia, especially now that Europe has been cut off from Russian energy. Ukrainian military continues to be steadily degraded in a war of attrition while European economy continues to deteriorate.

Nothing that the west has done in the past six months has worked as a deterrent for Russia, and now the war is escalating to a whole new level. This could eventually lead to NATO boots on the ground, and a potential nuclear war. Do you think it this is something we should be cheering on?

@pingveno@lemmy.ml
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This sort of moralizing is not constructive. I don’t really see what difference it makes whom you choose to blame for this.

My point more was that you seem to be treating Russia as some automaton that was inevitably driven to invade by NATO rather than a country with leaders that made the decision to invade their neighbor. I’ve only seen you make moral judgements towards NATO, not Russia. This at a time when Russia is making a move to take a very large portion of Ukraine’s pre-2014 territory by force.

I will even say this. Invading countries in response to NATO expansion creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. Russia invades, other countries feel threatened, those join NATO, rinse and repeat. We saw the Finns flip a long standing neutrality policy virtually overnight. That’s Russia’s fault, not some NATO expansionism. They made Finland afraid, and Finland responded accordingly to protect itself. If Ukraine had done so earlier, it would never have been invaded.

The reality of the situation is that the west is not capable of producing weapons and ammunition at the same rate as Russia, especially now that Europe has been cut off from Russian energy.

Don’t underestimate the West’s manufacturing abilities. In WW2, it may have been Soviet lives that defeated Germany in the eastern front, but it was US weaponry even before the US entered the war via the Lend-Lease Act. Yes, I’ve seen that study about current stockpiles. The US is more than capable of shifting manufacturing capability to weapons. Russia also lacks some critical supplies, like encrypted radios. Its troops are using simple unencrypted Baofengs, which are getting them killed.

Russia will also have problems with these new soldiers. They’re generally untrained, and the officers needed to train them are mostly in the field fighting the war itself. Many of them will be very much unwilling participants. Ukraine on the other hand has its soldiers trained by NATO trainers. NATO trainers can’t be involved in the actual fighting for fear of escalation, but training carries little such risk.

NXL
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weird you keep framing this as solely the west VS russia as if ukraine has zero say in any of this. The truth is a large majority of the population of Ukraine has volunteered to fight against russia to defend their home and country. Russia could stop the invasion today instead of forcing their men to die for Putin’s imperialist and genocidal dreams…

stop pointing fingers and join the forces. Put your wallet where your mouth is

Calm down. Take care of yourself.

No need to get nasty.

are you ok?

Inkie
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Fucking hell.

They gonna drag us into nukular war.

It sounds like these troops are going to run into preparedness and equipment issues, just like the initial invasion force. I’m sorry to see more Russian lives thrown into the meat grinder for this.

As the article notes, Russia and their puppets in the separatist regions have moved forward with annexation. Combined with Putin’s speech claiming that Russia would use any means available to defend its territory, that hints he may use nukes if Ukraine is on the verge of retaking the territory that Russia has annexed. Saber rattling maybe, but no one really wants to find out.

olbaidiablo
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I have a strange feeling that the nuclear weapons he thinks he has (and have to be replaced every few year and probably haven’t) are going to be as effective as that brand new highly advanced super tank that he has but hasn’t bothered to deploy at all.

пиздец

Seems like their “military special operation” is not going as expected. This plus the orchestrated referendums are pretty much an admission they expect a loss in the war if not stocking up the forces.

The front line is quite large, so there is no enough manpower to streighten it. Recent Ukrainian successful counter-offence demostrated softness of the frontline, so doulbling manpower on the front seems work on mistakes.

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