- cross-posted to:
- aiop@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- aiop@lemmy.world
Summary
The 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld Indiana’s law banning puberty blockers and hormones for transgender minors, aligning with similar laws in 26 GOP-led states.
Plaintiffs argued the law discriminates based on sex and interferes with parental rights to direct medical treatment for their children, but the 2-1 ruling dismissed these claims.
The court stated the law applies equally to all minors and parents don’t have unrestricted rights to medical treatments.
This decision comes as the Supreme Court prepares to review a similar Tennessee case, potentially setting a nationwide precedent.
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We’re in Indiana. One of my daughter’s close friends is trans. The school system treats him like shit already. He has to change with the girls and use the girls’ bathroom. Once, a girl was being a bigot to him over and over and he finally lost it and slapped her. He got in trouble, she did not.
I wish I could help him somehow. He’s such a sweet kid.
Cool, more teen suicides. Probably even pre-teens.
Less teens to get shot at school!
Until suicidal trans boys start acting like suicidal cis boys
I think this one is more difficult than it sounds.
You are asking if someone should have the right to make a life long decision, before they have matured enough to make a life long decision. Tie that in with parents who can both have their child’s best interests at heart, or their own preconceived religion and views on it and there is no wide reaching decision that is best for everyone.
Saying that, they would have said no regardless of the discussions and best interests of the individual. These discussions need to be had, but
quietlypretty fucking confident they won’t happen in the next 4 years.Sure, there’s some tough discussions to be had, but puberty blocker access is pretty damn straightforward to anyone who has actually researched it for 30 seconds or more. Plus, minor healthcare requires parental consent. Maybe some conversations are required. If they are, we better fucking defer to the parents in the meantime.
And idk I think I trust doctors, psychologists, and the affected more than lawyers
The problem is that, in this situation, no decision IS a decision.
Up until puberty, boys and girls are quite similar. It’s puberty that causes the lifelong changes. We already know that delaying puberty doesn’t cause long-term issues. Puberty blockers are used to treat or help with other conditions. By blocking puberty, you are buying time. Time for the child to mature. Time for phycologists to assess. Time to practice the role before locking it in permanently. Time to grow, learn, and make the very decision you are talking about.
Puberty blockers are reversible - that’s not a lifelong decision. That information should have been in the article, and if we didn’t live in a dumbshit rightwing dystopia where press is owned by the conservatives and also fears retribution from the conservatives, that information would’ve been in there.
Surgery? Sure, let’s have that conversation - though I would certainly argue it’s not the state’s business what happens between a child, their parents, and their doctors, any more than it would be any other lifelong medical procedure. But it’s at least a little murky. But this decision isn’t surgery, it’s puberty blockers. Not murky. Just evil.
Republicans just want this fact suppressed. Everywhere you look, puberty blockers are presented as bad as genital surgery. They want to make it sound scary and overly artificial, like “toxic levels of hormones to go against the grain of the natural process”. This part they don’t actually say out loud but it is implied. Every outlet that fails to make clear that puberty blockers is a well established intervention for cis and trans kids alike, they are part of the TERF propaganda apparatus right enough.
They also just refuse to admit that gender-affirming surgery is almost never performed on minors. When it is performed, it’s often as a last resort to stop the kid from killing or maiming themselves.
And they also say nothing about
circumcision
intersex infant normalization surgeries
ongoing breast enhancement surgeries for cis girls
Republicans did not ban those, nor they did minor marriages, but I will keep to the surgery related arguments.
At the same time, puberty blockers for cis kids with precocious puberty goes on as before. They only designate the transgender use as “off-license” with unknown long term side-effects.
How the fuck gender identity is supposed to interact with the exact same drug? This is pure hokum.
But you know the problem is that only you and me will read that. Vast majority of people are spoonfed transphobic propaganda from TERFs and Xitter. It is sickening how hard it is to get those simple talk points across nowadays.
They can’t even justify circumcision. Every piece of medical literature that used to claim benefits has been refuted. And no shit, we evolved foreskins for a reason.
Too late for me though.
Here, from 16:15 onward Vaush (I don’t vouch for the guy BTW) disects an way earlier article poisoned with the flawed logic about puberty blockers https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/watch?v=HhYruaFZEOI Just for people curious for how long this disinformation has been going on.
Puberty blockers aren’t life long. Puberty is. These parents aren’t trying to give their kids sex change operations. They’re trying to give their kids a chance to make those decisions for themselves.
I think this one is more difficult than it sounds.
I think that teens and kids are going to kill themselves because of this regardless of how difficult you think it sounds. I was a trans teen and waiting until I was 18 caused me to attempt suicide. Sure, it was only once, but I could have succeeded if I hadn’t chickened out and didn’t have a therapist at the time. Maybe TMI, but these discussions need to be had, as you say.
Also, puberty blockers are reversible at any time.
Much like book bans in school libraries that have moved to city libraries and all the other bans that started in schools, this will soon move from bans on children getting healthcare, to bans on adults getting healthcare once they use the “save the children” rhetoric to make their followers comfortable with the prejudices in general.
Yeah, Missouri tried to include adults with autism from getting gender care.
Yeah, that’s one reason I’ll never get an official Autism diagnosis. The misinformation about autism that politicians work with is gross. I mostly blame the companies like Autism Speaks who present it as a disease to be cured so parents don’t feel bad about making their kids mask rather than most forms being simply a sociologically induced disability because people are too lazy to adapt and too many exploitative social practices exist that neurotypicals can adapt to easily, but many neurodivergent people can’t and they don’t want to give up the exploitation.
Absolutely. The plan is no more gender affirming care for trans people period.
Should have voted for Biden!
Shithole state. I’m SO glad my family is getting an opportunity to get the fuck out of here before Mike Braun fucks it even harder.
The frustrating part of all of this is that it is true that puberty blockers aren’t approved by the FDA for delaying puberty for gender affirming treatments, but it is used anyway as an off-label use. Criticism of off-label uses of pharmaceuticals is a perfectly valid concern to have.
But if you actually had this concern in good faith, you would be putting pressure on the FDA to investigate this use of puberty blockers directly and make a call or whether or not this is an approved use. You would be demanding that the FDA fill in the gaps in their knowledge, and only allow this use of puberty blockers if there was no harm found.
Going straight to the legislature and banning it outright is underhanded as shit. The only reason to do that is because you know that the FDA has no reason to disapprove of this use, and you want to medically oppress trans people regardless of what the science actually says.
It’s transphobic bullshit, and anyone telling you that their concern is the safety and welfare of children is lying to you, because if that were true they would act like it.
Like gender identity interacts with the chemistry of the drug somehow? Is it safe if the kid is cis and it is not when the kid is trans? Is there some (well) materialism in gender identity or is this philosophical dualism of some sort?
The prescribed use is to suppress the development of sex features by blocking sex hormones, so how is it different?
This is just fear mongering.
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I was a transgender child. Going through forced puberty led me to attempt suicide at 14 15 and 18. Parts of my body are covered in self-harm scars due in large part to the utter repulsion I felt at the effects of testosterone on my body. I became an alcoholic at 16, and an oxycontin addict by the time I was 20. The day my voice cracked was one of the worst days of my entire life. For reference I started counseling when I was 13. I was receiving therapy throughout all of this.
I am extremely lucky to be alive. I have had to spend tens of thousands of dollars undoing the harm testosterone did to me and some things I can never fully undo. I could have avoided all of this if I had had access to puberty blockers. If I had been offered puberty blockers, I would have taken them without a thought, and I categorically would not have regretted them. I knew I wanted to be a girl when I was 4. I knew that I didn’t want to go through testosterone puberty when I was in grade 4, and they taught us what that was.
Is forcing us to go through what I went through humane? When a real treatment exists right there? When studies show a less than 1% rate of regret for gender affirmative care for minors? Do you realize you are forcing children to go through what I went through? Do you realize not every child will survive? Do you realize you’re supporting causes that kill children? For no fucking reason? Because you don’t fucking understand what we go through and have no fucking interest in listening to us? How about asking trans kids what they fucking need? How about asking trans adults what being a trans child was like for them? No you have no fucking interest in any of that.
Many hugs friend. I remember the immense feelings of disgust, confusion, and frustration when I started bleeding at 10 years old and began developing breasts. I didn’t want any of that. It felt so unnatural. I suffered a lot of health problems from hitting puberty so early, and ironically puberty blockers would have been an effective treatment but they either didn’t exist or simply weren’t offered back in those days.
I am sorry you had to go through all of that and I, for one, am very glad you’re still with us and fighting the good fight.
“I’m not going to get political but”
“Gets political”
“Spouts off right wing talking points”
“Demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the transition process”
I did not say I am not going to. the point of that statement is to point out how abnormal it is for me to weigh in on a political issue and how egregious I believe this to be, and I absolutely do not care if it is right left up or down, this should not be politicized, it is human experimentation.
“confirms a fundamental lack of understanding of the transition process.”
“Restates more right wing talking points”
“Gets triggered by their own name when used by a member of a community they just insulted”
it is human experimentation
No it is not. It is a well thought out medical intervention, with extensively studied effects, and life saving outcomes for trans youth.
For the most part of this video Vaush debunks every argument that puberty blockers are an experimental treatment https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/watch?v=HhYruaFZEOI
American Psychological Organization about young transgender people https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/07/advocating-transgender-nonbinary-youths
Or do you think trans people just pop out of thin air as fully grown adults? You understand that trans people once were kids like everybody else right? And finally have you ever spoken to a transgender person and ask what it is like growing up trans? All these ignorant morons fearmonger like this therapy is pushed onto unknowing kids and parents, presented like it is a cool video game. Guess what, people actively seek this therapy for their kids or themselves because they know what it is doing, it stops unwanted sexual features to develop, and it is reversible.
What was your problem again?
Hi, I’m a trans woman and I just wanna say that the name you chose for yourself suits you really well well!
The amount of shade casually hidden in this comment is something I aspire to.
K. That is a character assassination. Not a necessary argument for people with valid arguments.
Character assassination?
Did your parents name you “stupidcasey?”
Hey, I just like how you picked out your name. It’s a compliment. Why do you gotta be so toxic about yourself? Is it the brain full of hatred? I bet it’s the brain full of hatred.
Best of luck with *gestures at everything*.
Consider possibly not making trans peoples’ lives harder, yeah? Don’t contribute to that.
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Hey, chum, I’m just trying to be uplifting, you wanna come at me with fights, I’m trying to give you a compliment. No wonder you’re not getting laid if you try to fight every woman who says something nice about you.
You know damn well this isn’t about surgery. It’s about hormones, and it says so right there in the summary. You didn’t even have to click the link. Nobody is doing breast implants on trans minors (only on cis minors, which is perfectly fine for some reason).
Forcing a trans kid to go through the wrong puberty even though they know they are trans is extremely traumatic. It’s life ruining. It alters the voice, the shape of the torso, the shape of the face, and facial and body hair in ways that either can’t be fixed at all, or can only be fixed with expensive surgeries later on.
And if you want people to be absolutely sure about their status before going on hormone replacement therapy, then that is exactly what puberty blockers are for. Leuprorelin prevents puberty so that the kid can figure themself out for a year or two, and then make sure they go through the correct puberty. Even if they decide not to be transgender in the end, they can just go off leuprorelin and start puberty.
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You’re against things that alter kids minds and bodies? Like puberty? Well luckily there’s a way to stop that! Puberty blockers, which have been safely used for decades and are considered a medical necessity by WPATH as well as many other health organizations!
Why are we debating this at all, shouldn’t it be the decision of the parents? You don’t agree, that’s fine, you can tell your kids no. If someone else looks at the evidence and believes it’s true, and believes this is hugely beneficial to their kid, why should the government have a say in their kid’s medical treatment?
This is a separate topic, and a big fucking no. You assume parents actually know what’s best for their kids and want that, but look around, most of these people voting for these bans are parents as well.
Parents can’t and shouldn’t be blindly trusted.
If someone else looks at the evidence and believes it’s true, and believes this is hugely beneficial to their kid, why should the government have a say in their kid’s medical treatment?
And if the parent thinks otherwise where it is legal?
Kids aren’t the parents’ property.
Obviously it would only be if the doctors and parents approved together. Point being, the government is stepping in and overriding my parental rights and my doctor’s recommendation just because someone else does not agree.
And I don’t see parents voting for bans, none of these have been initiatives. These are law makers.
No it should not be the decision of the parents, it should be the decision of the patient and their doctors.
Yes, definitely agree it should require the doctor to approve as well, and the child should also consent. The point is that the government is interfering with both parents and doctors by stepping in. Feels very much like your body, my choice here.
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We have this in every country. In America it’s called the American Medical Association. It’s been invented already. There’s even specific subgroups and organizations of doctors and such that advocate for people who have particular problems and troubles, like the Multiple Sclerosis Research Society, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, and the American Stroke Organization. These things exist and they help people.
But you think I’m an AI, don’tcha? I’m not even snidely insulting you in this one. I’m trying to help in good faith.
Then again, you’re not here in good faith, so what can I do?
(The answer is to keep this here in case anyone is reading in good faith, and they can benefit from this comment. Guess I’m not really writing about you at all.)
By politically isolated I’m going to assume you just mean conversion therapists who will try to convince children they are not gay or trans. Because if you’re not giving them affirmative care and listening to them the alternative is denying them.
Conversion therapy kills people. That’s what it does. That’s all it does. It is NOT possible to stop someone from being gay or trans. It has never been shown to be possible in any fucking way. Conversion therapy does not work, has never worked, and is equivalent in mental distress to severe psychological torture. It frequently involves physical and sexual assault. It involves emotional abuse and manipulation. All in service of forcing us to conform. This is the alternative. If you’re against affirmative care this is what you’re for. Think about telling these people that what happened to them was right. Think about going to the lived ones of people who took their lives while undergoing conversion therapy. Think about telling them that what happened is right and should be legal. This is what you’re advocating for. This is the side that you’re on.
This is exactly why I am luck to have citizenship so we can emigrate to the UK. My daughter is queer (not trans, but they will come for all queer people eventually) and the UK is working to outlaw conversion therapy.
I wish I could take every queer person, especially every trans person, with us.
Are you sure about the UK squid? Wasn’t there a huge ordeal there for not extending the conversion therapy ban to transgender care? That’s what I had read.
Going through the wrong puberty is also a life long decision with major consequences. Hope that helps!
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Holy shit you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you’re talking about, so please shut the fuck up about your uninformed personal opinions.
Puberty blockers only delay the onset of puberty until you stop taking them, at which point development resumes normally with far less downsides than the risk of developing undesired sex characteristics. So no, this is not “the same choice no matter if we ban or allow this.” The same choice would be starting actual sex hormones; puberty blockers are the middle ground here.
Banning puberty blockers is politically motivated actors putting their politics above people’s bodily autonomy and medical professionals’ ability to make medically informed decisions.
You’re flat out wrong that allowing doctors to prescribe puberty blockers would cause risk of greater suffering in such a way as to make it abundantly clear that you don’t know what those meds actually do.
You are a fucking moron. Username checks out.
I also have to wonder if this will make it so that kids who take puberty blockers for other reasons won’t be allowed to get them either.
Are we going to start seeing six-year-olds with breasts or facial hair?
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stop usibg [sic] ur brain and thinking for yourself
You don’t need to tell them to do that, they clearly already did before commenting. But then, so did you.
