This is where most leftists who refuse to vote for Biden are coming from. Do they pull the lever and participate in the system even if their vote would lead to continued genocide? Or do they remain a bystander and let the chips fall where they may, knowing they did not vote for genocide in any form?
When we participate in a rigged system, doesn’t it just give the system legitimacy? When we don’t participate in a rigged system, are we complicit in what happens? The trolly problem says no: you didn’t put those people on the tracks; you don’t have the power to stop the train and save everyone. You only have a choice: participate and save more lives than you (personally) chose to take or don’t participate and remind yourself that the system put these people on the track to begin with.
My position is if you are aware of the situation you are already a part of the system. Whether you choose to pull the lever or not is still a choice, which you have made, and are responsible for the outcomes thereof.
How do you feel about the third option? If I vote for a third party, knowing they won’t win in a rigged system, am I just as responsible as I am if I don’t pull the lever at all?
All I said still applies. What is the outcome of your choice? Is it achieving your goals? Is it leading to a better or worse outcome?
Sadly, the FPTP system doesn’t lend itself to reflecting the will of the people if more than 2 options are presented, and I haven’t heard of a credible independent candidate. And by credible, I mean having any real chance of winning.
If you had two very similar choices, I could see the argument of voting for a third party, but one of your candidates is literally promising a dictatorship. I’ve seen a lot of valid arguments of starting local and building up to statewide change if you want to effectively change the political landscape. It won’t be as fast, and it certainly won’t be easy, but it does appear to have a real chance to move things in the desired direction.
Have you ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy by Douglass Adams? How long do we have to vote for the “right” lizard so the wrong lizard doesn’t get in? When do we get to vote for a human? And why is it that people like you continually tell me that I have to vote for genocide - that there’s no other choice, either genocide or fascist genocide? When do I get to choose? When is the literal future of democracy no longer on the line?
You ignored every question I asked and haven’t given any reason for how voting third party will achieve your goals. You can vote for whoever you like. There are more effective ways to have someone other than lizards to vote for, but thatbrequires work. Neither you not Adam’s have provided any real suggestions on how to fix that with anything more significant than a salve to your conscience.
Yes I understand this, and I also understand leftists who look at this from other angles. I’d greatly distrust anyone who considers it an easy choice to vote for someone who’s actively making a genocide possible and who’s imprisoning and deporting record numbers of immigrants and refugees. It’s not something to be taken lightly, even if one does arrive at this conclusion.
And I really distrust people’s motives who start barking orders to people about how to respond. If anything, I feel like such tactics only discourage people from voting, and it’s unfortunately common, at least in online spaces.
This is where most leftists who refuse to vote for Biden are coming from. Do they pull the lever and participate in the system even if their vote would lead to continued genocide? Or do they remain a bystander and let the chips fall where they may, knowing they did not vote for genocide in any form?
When we participate in a rigged system, doesn’t it just give the system legitimacy? When we don’t participate in a rigged system, are we complicit in what happens? The trolly problem says no: you didn’t put those people on the tracks; you don’t have the power to stop the train and save everyone. You only have a choice: participate and save more lives than you (personally) chose to take or don’t participate and remind yourself that the system put these people on the track to begin with.
My position is if you are aware of the situation you are already a part of the system. Whether you choose to pull the lever or not is still a choice, which you have made, and are responsible for the outcomes thereof.
How do you feel about the third option? If I vote for a third party, knowing they won’t win in a rigged system, am I just as responsible as I am if I don’t pull the lever at all?
All I said still applies. What is the outcome of your choice? Is it achieving your goals? Is it leading to a better or worse outcome?
Sadly, the FPTP system doesn’t lend itself to reflecting the will of the people if more than 2 options are presented, and I haven’t heard of a credible independent candidate. And by credible, I mean having any real chance of winning.
If you had two very similar choices, I could see the argument of voting for a third party, but one of your candidates is literally promising a dictatorship. I’ve seen a lot of valid arguments of starting local and building up to statewide change if you want to effectively change the political landscape. It won’t be as fast, and it certainly won’t be easy, but it does appear to have a real chance to move things in the desired direction.
Have you ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy by Douglass Adams? How long do we have to vote for the “right” lizard so the wrong lizard doesn’t get in? When do we get to vote for a human? And why is it that people like you continually tell me that I have to vote for genocide - that there’s no other choice, either genocide or fascist genocide? When do I get to choose? When is the literal future of democracy no longer on the line?
You ignored every question I asked and haven’t given any reason for how voting third party will achieve your goals. You can vote for whoever you like. There are more effective ways to have someone other than lizards to vote for, but thatbrequires work. Neither you not Adam’s have provided any real suggestions on how to fix that with anything more significant than a salve to your conscience.
Yes I understand this, and I also understand leftists who look at this from other angles. I’d greatly distrust anyone who considers it an easy choice to vote for someone who’s actively making a genocide possible and who’s imprisoning and deporting record numbers of immigrants and refugees. It’s not something to be taken lightly, even if one does arrive at this conclusion.
And I really distrust people’s motives who start barking orders to people about how to respond. If anything, I feel like such tactics only discourage people from voting, and it’s unfortunately common, at least in online spaces.
But I’m not arguing against what you’ve said.