You are entirely missing the point here. You seem so deluded by factionalism that you canāt see this as anything but a democrat vs Republican issue.
This is a HUMAN GODDAMN LIVES issue. A literal genocide is happening and youāre playing the whataboutism game. āWhataboutismā is used way too much as a phrase in discussions, but this is a textbook example of it.
āBiden is contributing to genocide.ā
āBut trump is a criminal.ā
āOkayā¦but people are literally being slaughtered and starved on the USās dime and the president is still voicing support in the face of the atrocities we are all witnessing.ā
āBut trump-ā
Just stop. No one here likes trump. We understand stacking domestic chaos on top of this issue is no good. But we are faced with no good option right now. The entire argument for voting for democrats over republicans is usually ābut we can push the democrats through shame to do what is right.ā THAT IS WHAT THIS IS.
Weāre not playing politics. Weāre playing try to save some goddamn lives with civil disobedience.
Like, itās something we all understand. But that doesnāt absolve the Biden adminās full-dive involvement. This administration is complicit in genocide.
That doesnāt mean another president wouldnāt be as well. The US as a country and entity is complicit. But thatās what weāre trying to change by calling out the weaker linkābecause the point isnāt playing politics. Itās stopping the genocide. Whatās happening right now in Gaza is untenable. And Biden is supposed to be the better optionāagain, yes, we all understand trump would not be better. But that doesnāt change whatās happening. We need to be able to pressure our representatives, especially when they claim to be morally superior to the āotherā party. And especially when theyāre more likely to change. We have Biden over the barrel because itās an election year, and heās seeing a ton of pressure from people he needs the votes of. Hats leverage we donāt typically have. We need to use it. Also, itās fuckin genocide. I donāt know how else to say it. And it needs to stop. This isnāt us claiming anything except we donāt want whatās happening to continue. Weāre not discussing the election. This supersedes it.
This is what we need to do. Because, the point is stopping the genocide. Not playing politics. And thatās what you just canāt see past. Like I said, we voted for Biden knowing he was supposed to be the more morally sound option. And here he is participating in genocide. We are trying to push the president who is vulnerable on this issue to do the right thing. Thatās what needs to happen. BECAUSE THERE IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE TAKING PLACE. That fact isnāt going away, no matter how much of a disaster trump would be. This president is vulnerable on the issue, and the point isnāt politics. Itās stopping a goddamn genocide.
What is your point youāre making here? Because youāre not saying anything anyone else doesnāt know. But that doesnāt we shouldnāt be skewering Biden for this. Because he holds the reins of power. This is what we should be doing, if not more.
No, youāre still missing he point. The thread youāve been involved in, this thread, has been ābiden is complicit in genocide.ā āWell trump is bad and would be worse.ā
No one had said anything about the election when I jumped in except for you. But again, my point is this supersedes whatās happening in the election. Youāre displaying factionalism. Democrat vs Republican is the arena youāre operating in.
There is a genocide happening. Full stop.
And it needs to end. That is where this conversation ends.
Saying, āwellā¦but, the other candidateāā
No. This isnāt about candidates. This president is in office for almost another year. People are protesting whatās happening. The election only serves, in this situation, as leverage for us. Because this is bad timing for Biden because of the election. Thatās its only involvement here. Except for your comments.
You canāt see past the poison that is the two party system to understand that itās not even part of this discussion. Genocide. No. End it. Thatās the conversation. And you keep bringing up a person not currently involved in it.
If thatās what the conversation I jumped into was, then this conversation and my point would be different. Check it out, Iāve made this point many times because Iāve seen this situation being leveraged to tilt the election away from Biden. BUT THAT IS A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION.
Making this conversation, where people are putting pressure on the president to save lives and stop a genocide, about bidenās opponent in the upcoming election is wrong. Itās a nuanced difference, but I canāt make it any more clear. You either get that or you donāt. And so far you donāt seem like youāre getting it.
Not missing the point. Yes heās complicit, never said he wasnāt. I donāt know why you think that that is what I think. Ignoring what can happen in November is short sighted. Iām not saying to stop putting pressure, hell they need to ramp it up. You either get that, or you donāt, and so far it doesnāt seem like youāre getting it.
Jesus Christ, man. When the conversation is ā_____ is ______.ā and your entire argument is, āwell, what about _____#2?ā Then youāre not agreeing. Youāre altering the topic of conversation, which runs cover for the initial topic by muddying the waters.
NOW youāre backtracking. But your contribution to the conversation was diverting blame. Until we all started calling you out. Maybe you do agree with us. But that wasnāt what you were saying.
Conversation regarding topics arenāt binary, taking into account alternatives is not muddying the waters. Iām not sure why you think I was back tracking, and youāre the only person who " called me out". Funny you could have said something along the lines of at least we agree on bidens handling of this and that would have been that.
This isnāt an attempt to be binary. And I jumped in to the end of a conversation you were having with someone else.
And Iām not saying that weāre still disagreeing about Biden. Iām trying to get you to understand the nuance of this subject. Not the subject of whoās culpable here, but the conversation itself is the subject Iāve been trying to get you to see sense on.
Yes, itās great you agree that whatās happening is terrible. Butā¦assuming thatās the end of the conversation? That is trying to make this conversation binary.
The nuance here is that you dragging the electionānot even the election, but the other candidate in a future electionā into a conversation about what the current govt is doing (regardless of what other US presidents have done and will continue to do with Israel) is ignoring the basic fact that this is our recourse. And what your initial, like, five contributions to the conversation were, was to bring up someone else.
Whether you agree with the general idea or not, you were running cover by muddying the waters. Which kinda makes you complicit in complicity.
This isnāt just a āyou agree with us or youāre against usā situation. This is a āthe way you engage with this topic is subtly undermining the people youāre claiming to support and muddying the waters of the conversation while undercutting the efficacy and possible future support of ending the genocide.ā
Iāll try to go back into my comment history to find where Iāve taken a similar position to yours. But thatās what I mean by nuance. Itās not as simple as āagree. Convo over.ā Itās, yes, I technically do agree that trump would be far worse for Palestine and piling domestic controversy after domestic controversy on top of the current laser focus on this one situation would derail the movement and diffuse the pressure. But right now, under this administration, we have a chance to pressure this admin to save some lives. I know you agree. That isnāt my point. My point is that how we discuss the topic matters, and you bringing up technically unrelated things in the conversation about the issue is problematic.
Again, itās nuanced. Weāre both technically agreeing on the overarching issue. But the conversation is the topic and thatās what Iām trying to get you to see. The fact that you think agreeing on bidenās problematic behavior would be the end of the conversation is further proof youāre not getting my point.
You are entirely missing the point here. You seem so deluded by factionalism that you canāt see this as anything but a democrat vs Republican issue.
This is a HUMAN GODDAMN LIVES issue. A literal genocide is happening and youāre playing the whataboutism game. āWhataboutismā is used way too much as a phrase in discussions, but this is a textbook example of it.
āBiden is contributing to genocide.ā
āBut trump is a criminal.ā
āOkayā¦but people are literally being slaughtered and starved on the USās dime and the president is still voicing support in the face of the atrocities we are all witnessing.ā
āBut trump-ā
Just stop. No one here likes trump. We understand stacking domestic chaos on top of this issue is no good. But we are faced with no good option right now. The entire argument for voting for democrats over republicans is usually ābut we can push the democrats through shame to do what is right.ā THAT IS WHAT THIS IS.
Weāre not playing politics. Weāre playing try to save some goddamn lives with civil disobedience.
Itās not that ātrump is a criminalā itās that https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905
It will continue/be worse under trump.
Like, itās something we all understand. But that doesnāt absolve the Biden adminās full-dive involvement. This administration is complicit in genocide.
That doesnāt mean another president wouldnāt be as well. The US as a country and entity is complicit. But thatās what weāre trying to change by calling out the weaker linkābecause the point isnāt playing politics. Itās stopping the genocide. Whatās happening right now in Gaza is untenable. And Biden is supposed to be the better optionāagain, yes, we all understand trump would not be better. But that doesnāt change whatās happening. We need to be able to pressure our representatives, especially when they claim to be morally superior to the āotherā party. And especially when theyāre more likely to change. We have Biden over the barrel because itās an election year, and heās seeing a ton of pressure from people he needs the votes of. Hats leverage we donāt typically have. We need to use it. Also, itās fuckin genocide. I donāt know how else to say it. And it needs to stop. This isnāt us claiming anything except we donāt want whatās happening to continue. Weāre not discussing the election. This supersedes it.
This is what we need to do. Because, the point is stopping the genocide. Not playing politics. And thatās what you just canāt see past. Like I said, we voted for Biden knowing he was supposed to be the more morally sound option. And here he is participating in genocide. We are trying to push the president who is vulnerable on this issue to do the right thing. Thatās what needs to happen. BECAUSE THERE IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE TAKING PLACE. That fact isnāt going away, no matter how much of a disaster trump would be. This president is vulnerable on the issue, and the point isnāt politics. Itās stopping a goddamn genocide.
What is your point youāre making here? Because youāre not saying anything anyone else doesnāt know. But that doesnāt we shouldnāt be skewering Biden for this. Because he holds the reins of power. This is what we should be doing, if not more.
I fully agree, he needs to be held to a higher standard. A lot of people are making it out to be that biden shouldnāt be elected, so that āthe dems learnā. Also it seems biden is listening. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/biden-administration-pauses-one-ammunition-shipment-to-israel-reason-unclear/ar-BB1lRDdt
No, youāre still missing he point. The thread youāve been involved in, this thread, has been ābiden is complicit in genocide.ā āWell trump is bad and would be worse.ā
No one had said anything about the election when I jumped in except for you. But again, my point is this supersedes whatās happening in the election. Youāre displaying factionalism. Democrat vs Republican is the arena youāre operating in.
There is a genocide happening. Full stop.
And it needs to end. That is where this conversation ends.
Saying, āwellā¦but, the other candidateāā
No. This isnāt about candidates. This president is in office for almost another year. People are protesting whatās happening. The election only serves, in this situation, as leverage for us. Because this is bad timing for Biden because of the election. Thatās its only involvement here. Except for your comments.
You canāt see past the poison that is the two party system to understand that itās not even part of this discussion. Genocide. No. End it. Thatās the conversation. And you keep bringing up a person not currently involved in it.
If thatās what the conversation I jumped into was, then this conversation and my point would be different. Check it out, Iāve made this point many times because Iāve seen this situation being leveraged to tilt the election away from Biden. BUT THAT IS A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION.
Making this conversation, where people are putting pressure on the president to save lives and stop a genocide, about bidenās opponent in the upcoming election is wrong. Itās a nuanced difference, but I canāt make it any more clear. You either get that or you donāt. And so far you donāt seem like youāre getting it.
Not missing the point. Yes heās complicit, never said he wasnāt. I donāt know why you think that that is what I think. Ignoring what can happen in November is short sighted. Iām not saying to stop putting pressure, hell they need to ramp it up. You either get that, or you donāt, and so far it doesnāt seem like youāre getting it.
Jesus Christ, man. When the conversation is ā_____ is ______.ā and your entire argument is, āwell, what about _____#2?ā Then youāre not agreeing. Youāre altering the topic of conversation, which runs cover for the initial topic by muddying the waters.
NOW youāre backtracking. But your contribution to the conversation was diverting blame. Until we all started calling you out. Maybe you do agree with us. But that wasnāt what you were saying.
Conversation regarding topics arenāt binary, taking into account alternatives is not muddying the waters. Iām not sure why you think I was back tracking, and youāre the only person who " called me out". Funny you could have said something along the lines of at least we agree on bidens handling of this and that would have been that.
This isnāt an attempt to be binary. And I jumped in to the end of a conversation you were having with someone else.
And Iām not saying that weāre still disagreeing about Biden. Iām trying to get you to understand the nuance of this subject. Not the subject of whoās culpable here, but the conversation itself is the subject Iāve been trying to get you to see sense on.
Yes, itās great you agree that whatās happening is terrible. Butā¦assuming thatās the end of the conversation? That is trying to make this conversation binary.
The nuance here is that you dragging the electionānot even the election, but the other candidate in a future electionā into a conversation about what the current govt is doing (regardless of what other US presidents have done and will continue to do with Israel) is ignoring the basic fact that this is our recourse. And what your initial, like, five contributions to the conversation were, was to bring up someone else.
Whether you agree with the general idea or not, you were running cover by muddying the waters. Which kinda makes you complicit in complicity.
This isnāt just a āyou agree with us or youāre against usā situation. This is a āthe way you engage with this topic is subtly undermining the people youāre claiming to support and muddying the waters of the conversation while undercutting the efficacy and possible future support of ending the genocide.ā
Iāll try to go back into my comment history to find where Iāve taken a similar position to yours. But thatās what I mean by nuance. Itās not as simple as āagree. Convo over.ā Itās, yes, I technically do agree that trump would be far worse for Palestine and piling domestic controversy after domestic controversy on top of the current laser focus on this one situation would derail the movement and diffuse the pressure. But right now, under this administration, we have a chance to pressure this admin to save some lives. I know you agree. That isnāt my point. My point is that how we discuss the topic matters, and you bringing up technically unrelated things in the conversation about the issue is problematic.
Again, itās nuanced. Weāre both technically agreeing on the overarching issue. But the conversation is the topic and thatās what Iām trying to get you to see. The fact that you think agreeing on bidenās problematic behavior would be the end of the conversation is further proof youāre not getting my point.