- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
https://bsky.app/profile/brenthor.bsky.social/post/3krzc7fs77k2i
Best job i ever had was maintenance guy at a nursing home. Loved it. Rewarding. Fulfilling. Paid only $10.75/hr so i left it and ‘developed my career’ and now im ‘successful’ but at least once a week i have dreams where im back in the home hanging pictures, flirtin with the ol gals, being useful.
So when people ask ‘who fixes toilets under communism?’ my answer is a resounding ‘me. I will fix the toilets.’
Of course you can learn them, you can learn anything.
But are you really going to learn every single skill you might one day need? Does this apply to everything, will you, for example, develop your own engine oil from the fractional distiller you hand-welded, with the metals you alloyed at home out of the ore you smelted yourself, just so you can lubricate the electric razor you assembled by hand?
No? Is that perhaps a bit inefficient? Of course it is, because no single human being can learn every skill we have available in society, and that’s been true since we invented agriculture.
There is no shame in not knowing how to plaster a wall, because that’s hard. Just like there is no shame in not being able to hand-weld and operate a fractional distiller. Now, not being able to unclog your toilet, or paint a wall, is up for discussion.
I actually do have to learn to plaster a wall, to fix my house. People should be taught everything they need to know to live on their own, sustainably. I can’t believe you’re trying to argue against that. Capitalism makes everyone weaker, top to bottom. Wake up.
You won’t learn complex skills if you don’t have a chance to exercise them often. In 10 years, you probably won’t be in condition to plaster another wall, if the only time you have done it is now. So you need to continuously relearn stuff, if you can.
I don’t see the problem if people specialize in certain trades and can contribute to the community with them.
I never said people can’t specialize. You’re totally ignoring the point, which is that basic life skills aren’t taught because capitalism assumes the owner will pay somebody else, rather than being actually useful people themselves. Try listening sometime, it may do you some good.
You are simply moving the goalpost. Basically all the comments chain talks about advanced skills. I can see there is a general consensus (and I agree with this as well) about the fact that learning basic skills in multiple areas is both beneficial and achievable.
The whole point of this comment referred to complex skills, and plastering a wall was given as an example of such complex skills. To which you answered “I am going to plaster a wall”. Try admitting that you might have made an overstatement or simply have been too geberic sometimes, nobody is keeping score.
Fixing a toilet should be considered a basic life skill, in my opinion. So is plastering, which is basically just large-scale patching. Toilets are important for quality of life, or are you going to try and disagree with that too? You’re literally the one moving the goalpost and you admit that by referring to the comments rather than the post, which was what I was talking about, and have always been talking about. Maybe stop throwing a fit just because I said the people deserve better education and that capitalism sucks. Both are true whether you like hearing it or not. Anarcho-communism believes in strengthening the individual so that if the society fails, the people can still survive well. It’s called self-sustainability. Be mad at it if you want, doesn’t make it wrong.
Fixing a toilet doesn’t mean much. Unclogging a toilet is a thing, replumbing it is a complete different thing. I would say plastering a wall is also complex. That said, my objection has nothing to do with not liking your opinion, I am very much a critic of capitalism myself and I consider myself a communist. I simply disagree with you in where the bar is with regards to what people “should learn” to do and what instead should be done by professionals who do that thing day in and day out. The argument is simple: you can technically learn anything but you won’t have the time or the possibility to learn well everything. If society fails you will need to give up stuff, despite whatever this prepper version of anarcho-communism says, because you simply won’t be able to be a competent farmer, electrician, builder, doctor, plumber, etc. This has nothing to do with capitalism, it has to do with the fact that complex skills need to be practiced to be maintained or acquired.
Actually, it has to do with hierarchy, and as a communist you should be able to see that. Capitalism itself is a hierarchy, and you’re putting the professional over the individual. You’re denying people the right to learn how to take care of themselves. You’re also making it more difficult to cross-profession. You’re perpetuating the system. You need to check yourself before you wreck yourself. I’m not talking about learning everything. I’m talking about learning to be self-sufficient, which I already said. If you are actually a communist, being such a clearly not anarchist one, you need to consider putting your focus on arguing with the right-wing instead of your comrades.
Being self-sufficient is an empty expression. To reach what standard? Living in caves and off the land, roaming like 100k years ago? Living similarly to how we live in the West in the present? The former is possible, and so are middle grounds hence me saying “you need to give up stuff”, but the latter is not.
Also, a professional is just another individual, possibly a member of the community, which I consider to be the smallest viable social unit for self sufficiency based on modern society. I believe in mutual aid. Capitalism’s hierarchy is based on ownership of resources and means of production, not skills, so your argument seems completely pointless to me. A society in which professionals exist is completely compatible with a classless society.
Also, I am not denying anything to anybody, I am just stating that learning certain things is unrealistic and this should not be the blueprint for a post-collapse society in my view because it is bound to fail in my opinion. If someone does manage to be fully self-sufficient, all power to them.
I argue with whoever I want, including with leftists if this means building a common vision. And from what I can tell, my vision of what society should look like is completely different from yours.