I’ve been around these arguments enough times to see the discussion inevitably get to this point. We dance around the idea of “is it worth it to go vegan or not?” long enough, until eventually someone concedes that “yes it is better to do, but it’s not practical to ask everyone to do it/you can’t get everyone to go vegan/it won’t solve the problem if we go vegan and do nothing else/etc.”
If you truly think that it’s worth doing, either do it, or admit that you selfishly don’t want to. Don’t try and pretend the climate science backs up your opinions though.
As an aside, this is basically my goodbye letter to Lemmy, so so probably not going to follow up on this thread. The platform is so small that people can’t help but creep into communities that show up in the overall feed. Say what you will about Reddit, but at least there, spaces created specifically for in-groups (like a space called “vegancirclejerk”) didn’t constantly get commenters from the wider world knocking on the door and starting flame wars in the comments. Like, can there be no space for vegans to just fuck around and post memes in peace?
Maybe finally I’ll get some peace by logging off and touching some grass. And then eating the grass, bc I’m vegan btw
Conventionally raised animals get all sorts of drugs, vitamins, etc. I’m sure.
Cows and other ruminants wouldn’t normally need to be given B12 as it’s created by their gut microbiota and available to their bodies. If they are indeed supplemented with B12 I wonder if it’s because a corn based diet doesn’t support a microbiome that can create B12?
@mojo_raisin It’s because of factory farming which is 97%+ of all production. Factory farmed animals don’t have access to a healthy soil where they would normally get their B12 and other nutrients. That means rising animals for mass consumption is totally wrong.
Same goes with humans. People today are so separated from the healthy soil, they lack B12.
Vegetarian and vegan diets have been around for thousands of years in parts of Asia, well before B12 supplements. Cultures sorted out the nutritional requirements through ingredients, and the lack of B12 in western vegan diets has more to do with common western ingredients than some inherent problem with a plant based diet.
I’m not even vegetarian or vegan, just annoyed with misconceptions about their feasibility.
Vegetarian and vegan diets have been around for thousands of years in parts of Asia, well before B12 supplements.
Vegetarianism yes… veganism I don’t think that’s really plausible.
I think this may come down to different cultures classifying what they consider to be meat.
For example if you go to Korea, it’s really really simple to be a vegetarian and almost impossible to be a vegan. Most of your basic cooking spices are going to include things like dried krill powder. And if you asked the cook or waiter if there are meat or animal byproducts, they will tell you “no meat”.
I don’t understand your argument. I went vegan at age 51. Before I went vegan I was a meat eater and loved meat. I can honestly say I do not crave meat now.
I think it is just a case of developing your palette. It’s like when some children don’t like veggies but then grow to love them as part of the diet or cutting down on sugar.
just because we’re adapted for something doesn’t mean we should continue that behavior.
So you’re saying, rather than consider how our population affects us and our world, we should go against what millions of years of evolution has come to as being appropriate for us?
Red meat is not carcinogenic, if it is, why don’t we see carnivores dying of cancer constantly? Cancer is a growth due to mutated DNA, are you saying red meat mutates our DNA?
And if what you take from me is that we shouldn’t consider how our population affects us and the world then either I seriously fucked up in communicating or your reading comprehension is garbage. The way our population affects us and our world is why people should be vegan in the first place. When we consider our impact seriously and without bias, going vegan is the biggest, easiest thing to do first to reduce our impact
our biological hunger imperative doesn’t imply eating animal products. Roadkill, freshly killed animals, dairy, eggs are not inherently appetizing to humans. If anything it’s the opposite, a dead body is repulsize to most people. A huge percentage of humans are lactose intolerant. Raw eggs are gross. Fruits are about as close as you can get to biological hunger imperative, the other stuff we learn to like and/or cook to make it taste good
Lions have nutritional requirements that can’t be met without meat or enough generations and pressures to evolve the ability to process what they need from plants.
That is a major difference between big cats and dogs, as dogs are omnivores and could make due without meat.
lions don’t have tofu and supermarkets
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i hear what you’re saying, but we’re in 2024 now and large-scale veganism is definitely practical
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I’ve been around these arguments enough times to see the discussion inevitably get to this point. We dance around the idea of “is it worth it to go vegan or not?” long enough, until eventually someone concedes that “yes it is better to do, but it’s not practical to ask everyone to do it/you can’t get everyone to go vegan/it won’t solve the problem if we go vegan and do nothing else/etc.”
Convenient that any time an environmental initiative requires even tiny changes to our day to day lives, suddenly we need to look for the solutions vaguely “elsewhere.” I guess let’s ignore the fact that emissions from food alone are enough to push the planet over the 1.5C degree warming threshold for the planet, and that the average US consumer eats an order of magnitude more red meat than could ever be sustainable.
If you truly think that it’s worth doing, either do it, or admit that you selfishly don’t want to. Don’t try and pretend the climate science backs up your opinions though.
As an aside, this is basically my goodbye letter to Lemmy, so so probably not going to follow up on this thread. The platform is so small that people can’t help but creep into communities that show up in the overall feed. Say what you will about Reddit, but at least there, spaces created specifically for in-groups (like a space called “vegancirclejerk”) didn’t constantly get commenters from the wider world knocking on the door and starting flame wars in the comments. Like, can there be no space for vegans to just fuck around and post memes in peace?
Maybe finally I’ll get some peace by logging off and touching some grass. And then eating the grass, bc I’m vegan btw
@mojo_raisin @toxicbubble Did you knew they supplement farm animals with B12 and other vitamins and stuff?
Conventionally raised animals get all sorts of drugs, vitamins, etc. I’m sure.
Cows and other ruminants wouldn’t normally need to be given B12 as it’s created by their gut microbiota and available to their bodies. If they are indeed supplemented with B12 I wonder if it’s because a corn based diet doesn’t support a microbiome that can create B12?
@mojo_raisin It’s because of factory farming which is 97%+ of all production. Factory farmed animals don’t have access to a healthy soil where they would normally get their B12 and other nutrients. That means rising animals for mass consumption is totally wrong.
Same goes with humans. People today are so separated from the healthy soil, they lack B12.
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@mojo_raisin B12 is produced by soil bacteria. Wildlife don’t have problem with B12, predator or herbivore.
Vegetarian and vegan diets have been around for thousands of years in parts of Asia, well before B12 supplements. Cultures sorted out the nutritional requirements through ingredients, and the lack of B12 in western vegan diets has more to do with common western ingredients than some inherent problem with a plant based diet.
I’m not even vegetarian or vegan, just annoyed with misconceptions about their feasibility.
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That is why I was clear about the diets being around. Diets can exist without the dogma.
Vegetarianism yes… veganism I don’t think that’s really plausible.
I think this may come down to different cultures classifying what they consider to be meat.
For example if you go to Korea, it’s really really simple to be a vegetarian and almost impossible to be a vegan. Most of your basic cooking spices are going to include things like dried krill powder. And if you asked the cook or waiter if there are meat or animal byproducts, they will tell you “no meat”.
I don’t understand your argument. I went vegan at age 51. Before I went vegan I was a meat eater and loved meat. I can honestly say I do not crave meat now.
I think it is just a case of developing your palette. It’s like when some children don’t like veggies but then grow to love them as part of the diet or cutting down on sugar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc8XTLpqxLw
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Yeah, I mean if you look at how carcinogenic red meat is to humans, it’s unlikely we ate all that much of it
but even so, just because we’re adapted for something doesn’t mean we should continue that behavior.
So you’re saying, rather than consider how our population affects us and our world, we should go against what millions of years of evolution has come to as being appropriate for us?
Red meat is not carcinogenic, if it is, why don’t we see carnivores dying of cancer constantly? Cancer is a growth due to mutated DNA, are you saying red meat mutates our DNA?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu9w4klc-B4 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34455534 and more sources in the description. Red meat definitely is carcinogenic lmao.
And if what you take from me is that we shouldn’t consider how our population affects us and the world then either I seriously fucked up in communicating or your reading comprehension is garbage. The way our population affects us and our world is why people should be vegan in the first place. When we consider our impact seriously and without bias, going vegan is the biggest, easiest thing to do first to reduce our impact
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Inflamation caused by heme iron, iirc
our biological hunger imperative doesn’t imply eating animal products. Roadkill, freshly killed animals, dairy, eggs are not inherently appetizing to humans. If anything it’s the opposite, a dead body is repulsize to most people. A huge percentage of humans are lactose intolerant. Raw eggs are gross. Fruits are about as close as you can get to biological hunger imperative, the other stuff we learn to like and/or cook to make it taste good
Yeah but muh ideals
Lions have nutritional requirements that can’t be met without meat or enough generations and pressures to evolve the ability to process what they need from plants.
That is a major difference between big cats and dogs, as dogs are omnivores and could make due without meat.
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