Looks like you already got your answer, but it’s honestly shocking how terribly such a large portion of the population is literally starving, or a single paycheck from tipping the scales against them.
I myself believe capitalism to be the only viable option, but it needs a system of correction, whenever it leans into a self destructive path.
And said development is a self destructive path. Sooner or later people will revolt against a system that binds them to an unpleasant destiny.
And rightfully so.
I fear what happens with capitalism the moment economic growth slows down any further.
My country might have more control over capitalism, balancing out the negative, but due to demographic change and some bad decision because of climate change and migration, it feels like things are already getting out of hand.
It’s been a long time that I’ve been anticipating a future of opportunity.
And socialism and communism fails for the same reason. Because humans always or against each other towards inequalities and hierarchies.
You cannot escape human nature. Capitalism at least offers the slight chance to better your own position. If you are born smart or very dedicated, you might escape your situation.
Because humans always or against each other towards inequalities and hierarchies.
I don’t subscribe to this cynical view of humankind. It is systems like capitalism that introduce these inequalities and hierarchies. In a system based on “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need,” there would be no need to establish inequities and hierarchies. In fact, in such a system, it would run against one’s own best interests to invest in such destructive paths.
You cannot escape human nature
It is human nature to exist in a social group that upholds the interest of self as well as those around us. Are you projecting your own shortcomings onto the rest of us? That seems unfair of you.
Even if your cynical viewpoint were correct, this is still false. We are beings of higher intelligence, not bound by the confines of instinct. We have language that we can use to develop new systems and new understandings that aren’t inherently destructive like capitalism.
Capitalism at least offers the slight chance to better your own position
LMAO what? Capitalism does the very opposite. You are victim of the “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” mindset of capitalism. It’s false propaganda. You’ve been deceived. (Or maybe you are benefiting from this system and therefore want people to believe this, which … says something not so good about your character.)
If you are born smart
If you’re born smart, you do have privileges and opportunities that others do not have. This itself is an inequity that we should work to correct, and not something to be proud of.
or very dedicated
And there it is! The good ol’ bootstraps came out. It was only a matter of time.
Because humans always or against each other towards inequalities and hierarchies.
I don’t subscribe to this cynical view of humankind.
While you don’t have to do so, I believe there is no better way than to see the harsh truth of our existence. And it is not ideal and will never be.
Sure we can and have to strive for betterment. But ignoring human nature is and has always been a mistake. In smaller groups communism happens to work. But attempts at larger groups always fail. It is not possible for us to think bigger than our familiar groups. And people that believe to be different are simply wrong, because they themselves thereby become the opposing group that believes to have a missionary duty in some twisted belief of righteousness.
Combatting human nature is so hard in fact, that letting it run loose is far simpler. The little attempts or let us call them correction measures we call rules are already hard to maintain.
It is systems like capitalism that introduce these inequalities and hierarchies. In a system based on “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need,” there would be no need to establish inequities and hierarchies. In fact, in such a system, it would run against one’s own best interests to invest in such destructive paths.
Doesn’t work. Can only be maintained in optessive dictatorships. UDSSR and China.
You cannot escape human nature
It is human nature to exist in a social group that upholds the interest of self as well as those around us.
Only applies to this extend onto smaller groups. Groups sizes of large families. Clan structures and such kind.
The bigger the group, the smaller the interest in others existence. And again this is rooted in human nature and human evolution.
Are you projecting your own shortcomings onto the rest of us?
No.
Even if your cynical viewpoint were correct, this is still false. We are beings of higher intelligence, not bound by the confines of instinct.
We are social animals. And you are right, due to our intellect we are capable to break free from our instincts and we are capable to distance ourselves from our irrational social evolutionary traits. We are capable to rationalise it. Analyse our own behaviour patterns and make theories why that is.
But Intellect does not free us from our evolutionary given brain functions and structures.
One example is war. We are unable to evade violence. In some situations we just lean into it. And this has been for over 4000 years. 4000 years and human behaviour didn’t change by much. Just new tech.
We have language that we can use to develop new systems and new understandings that aren’t inherently destructive like capitalism.
Every social form is inherently destructive in some way. There are no exceptions. Human nature is flawed and this will always be represented in the systems we create for order and structure.
Capitalism at least offers the slight chance to better your own position
LMAO what? Capitalism does the very opposite. You are victim of the “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” mindset of capitalism. It’s false propaganda. You’ve been deceived.
I am not deceived in any way. I can only remind you of what socialism does. In the DDR they assigned young people jobs already in school. Deciding who will be allowed to study at university and who will not. Capitalism gives you the choice. It does not need oppression and dictatorship to work.
(Or maybe you are benefiting from this system and therefore want people to believe this, which … says something not so good about your character.)
I do indeed profit from the system because I was given the option to decide what to do with my life. And I decided to study at University.
If you are born smart
If you’re born smart, you do have privileges and opportunities that others do not have. This itself is an inequity that we should work to correct, and not something to be proud of.
Being smart is something one should not be proud of?
What about beauty?
And what do you mean with correction an inequity? Drugs to lower peoples mental capacity down to the average? Or even lower?
Your argument seems weird to me, I do t think I understood it correctly. You should rephrase it.
or very dedicated
And there it is! The good ol’ bootstraps came out. It was only a matter of time.
Dedication and hard work is no guarantor for success. It or defensively helps. After my studies I always spend extra time to understand capital investment, because I am trying to learn as much as possible.
I am for sure spending 10-12 hours a day learning and another 1-1,5 to build my knowledge about finances.
Because I believe that with this extra time invested, I will be more capable to profit from my future salary with wise financial decisions.
Capitalism has given us the internet. And the internet is full of knowledge. And especially the internet has enabled me to invest time into other things that interest me.
None of the good things you mentioned are the result of capitalism and are in fact strangled by capitalism. The internet started as a military project, which is not inherently capitalist, and if anything the internet as we know it is an example of the potential of anarchism. Same with much of our infrastructure, such as international railways/highways, public libraries, state and national parks…
You also grossly overestimate how much your choices and hard work contribute to success while underestimating sheer luck and privilege.
I … can’t really respond to everything you wrote, partially because it’s a borderline gish gallop, but most of your statements have been addressed by leftist and post-leftist literature.
I’d recommend reading up on anarcho-communism and anarcho-primitivism. They’re quite different theories that work to solve the unjust and destructive system of capitalism. Also read up on the history of leftist movements in Latin America and how US intervention was used to derail them (US is responsible for the rise of authoritarianism/Soviet alignment in Cuba and the derailment of Sandinistas in Nicaragua, just as two examples.) While not specifically leftist, I’d also recommend reading something like Caste by Isabel Wilkerson to understand racial hierarchies and Everyday Sexism by Lara Bates about gender hierarchies.
Frankly, capitalism is killing our people and destroying the planet, and it urgently needs to be stopped. It’s an inherently destructive system, and it can’t be fixed. It must be replaced.
None of the good things you mentioned are the result of capitalism and are in fact strangled by capitalism.
Capitalism has been a main driver of innovation and applied sciences.
Under Capitalism it was possible to enhance our lives in an unbelievable short timespan. Capitalism is just less restrictive.
Socialism is always in need to control the economy and does not allow for quick adaptations. It’s one of the main reasons why soviets were so good at building rockets, but medical care or material sciences were simply less successful.
The internet started as a military project, which is not inherently capitalist, and if anything the internet as we know it is an example of the potential of anarchism.
I don’t understand your point. Just because the internet started as a military project and the military is not inherently capitalistic, doesn’t mean that any other social form would have been any more successful.
Furthermore the internet was and is undergoing enormous change. Mainly driven by capitalism. Capitalism has sped up the development. Something no government founding could have archived to a similar extend.
Same with much of our infrastructure, such as international railways/highways, public libraries, state and national parks…
Railways and highways are build by private companies though.
And indeed. With the internet we saw the downfall of public libraries, now only government founded institutions of that kind can still survive. A government is indeed needed as a correction tool, anarchistic capitalism doesn’t work. But that’s not what we got.
You also grossly overestimate how much your choices and hard work contribute to success while underestimating sheer luck and privilege.
No I do not underestimate it. I know that I am privileged to be born in a successful capitalistic country with many options in my life.
And yes. Sheer luck doesn’t hurt. Why would you punish anyone for their luck or for their intellect. This is this equality vs equity argument.
I … can’t really respond to everything you wrote, partially because it’s a borderline gish gallop, but most of your statements have been addressed by leftist and post-leftist literature.
And most of leftist and post leftist literature has been addressed by capitalistic economists literature. And those have again by addressed by leftists and then they have been addressed by libertarians again and so on and so forth.
It’s a debate that he not yet been settled. So making out Someone to be right and someone to be wrong is not yet and will probably not be possible at all.
I’d recommend reading up on anarcho-communism and anarcho-primitivism. They’re quite different theories that work to solve the unjust and destructive system of capitalism.
And they allow a gap in power to be filled by some dictator. Humans need power structures. Hasn’t history told us yet?
Also read up on the history of leftist movements in Latin America and how US intervention was used to derail them (US is responsible for the rise of authoritarianism/Soviet alignment in Cuba and the derailment of Sandinistas in Nicaragua, just as two examples.)
Well maybe communism in Latin America was simply not a solid system of it couldn’t handle foreign attempts of manipulation with bribes?
While not specifically leftist, I’d also recommend reading something like Caste by Isabel Wilkerson to understand racial hierarchies and Everyday Sexism by Lara Bates about gender hierarchies.
No thanks. After reading about gender theories I got extrem so annoyed by such irrational theories. I’d rather read something about anarcho-communism.
Frankly, capitalism is killing our people and destroying the planet, and it urgently needs to be stopped. It’s an inherently destructive system, and it can’t be fixed. It must be replaced.
But so is every other system. Monarchies, Capitalism, Dictatorships, Communism, Feudalism,…
It’s not the system that is inherently destructive. It’s people. It is easy to blame a system. That’s for sure. But the truth lies in our nature itself.
Looks like you already got your answer, but it’s honestly shocking how terribly such a large portion of the population is literally starving, or a single paycheck from tipping the scales against them.
Shocked that a system that makes food distribution a for profit endeavor rather than one with the goal of feeding people?
Yea. Hearing such stories is always shocking.
I myself believe capitalism to be the only viable option, but it needs a system of correction, whenever it leans into a self destructive path.
And said development is a self destructive path. Sooner or later people will revolt against a system that binds them to an unpleasant destiny. And rightfully so.
I fear what happens with capitalism the moment economic growth slows down any further. My country might have more control over capitalism, balancing out the negative, but due to demographic change and some bad decision because of climate change and migration, it feels like things are already getting out of hand.
It’s been a long time that I’ve been anticipating a future of opportunity.
Capitalism is the problem, not the solution
Capitalism only “works” due to the inequalities and unjust hierarchies it creates
And socialism and communism fails for the same reason. Because humans always or against each other towards inequalities and hierarchies.
You cannot escape human nature. Capitalism at least offers the slight chance to better your own position. If you are born smart or very dedicated, you might escape your situation.
I don’t subscribe to this cynical view of humankind. It is systems like capitalism that introduce these inequalities and hierarchies. In a system based on “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need,” there would be no need to establish inequities and hierarchies. In fact, in such a system, it would run against one’s own best interests to invest in such destructive paths.
It is human nature to exist in a social group that upholds the interest of self as well as those around us. Are you projecting your own shortcomings onto the rest of us? That seems unfair of you.
Even if your cynical viewpoint were correct, this is still false. We are beings of higher intelligence, not bound by the confines of instinct. We have language that we can use to develop new systems and new understandings that aren’t inherently destructive like capitalism.
LMAO what? Capitalism does the very opposite. You are victim of the “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” mindset of capitalism. It’s false propaganda. You’ve been deceived. (Or maybe you are benefiting from this system and therefore want people to believe this, which … says something not so good about your character.)
If you’re born smart, you do have privileges and opportunities that others do not have. This itself is an inequity that we should work to correct, and not something to be proud of.
And there it is! The good ol’ bootstraps came out. It was only a matter of time.
While you don’t have to do so, I believe there is no better way than to see the harsh truth of our existence. And it is not ideal and will never be.
Sure we can and have to strive for betterment. But ignoring human nature is and has always been a mistake. In smaller groups communism happens to work. But attempts at larger groups always fail. It is not possible for us to think bigger than our familiar groups. And people that believe to be different are simply wrong, because they themselves thereby become the opposing group that believes to have a missionary duty in some twisted belief of righteousness. Combatting human nature is so hard in fact, that letting it run loose is far simpler. The little attempts or let us call them correction measures we call rules are already hard to maintain.
Doesn’t work. Can only be maintained in optessive dictatorships. UDSSR and China.
Only applies to this extend onto smaller groups. Groups sizes of large families. Clan structures and such kind. The bigger the group, the smaller the interest in others existence. And again this is rooted in human nature and human evolution.
No.
We are social animals. And you are right, due to our intellect we are capable to break free from our instincts and we are capable to distance ourselves from our irrational social evolutionary traits. We are capable to rationalise it. Analyse our own behaviour patterns and make theories why that is. But Intellect does not free us from our evolutionary given brain functions and structures. One example is war. We are unable to evade violence. In some situations we just lean into it. And this has been for over 4000 years. 4000 years and human behaviour didn’t change by much. Just new tech.
Every social form is inherently destructive in some way. There are no exceptions. Human nature is flawed and this will always be represented in the systems we create for order and structure.
I am not deceived in any way. I can only remind you of what socialism does. In the DDR they assigned young people jobs already in school. Deciding who will be allowed to study at university and who will not. Capitalism gives you the choice. It does not need oppression and dictatorship to work.
I do indeed profit from the system because I was given the option to decide what to do with my life. And I decided to study at University.
Being smart is something one should not be proud of? What about beauty? And what do you mean with correction an inequity? Drugs to lower peoples mental capacity down to the average? Or even lower? Your argument seems weird to me, I do t think I understood it correctly. You should rephrase it.
Dedication and hard work is no guarantor for success. It or defensively helps. After my studies I always spend extra time to understand capital investment, because I am trying to learn as much as possible. I am for sure spending 10-12 hours a day learning and another 1-1,5 to build my knowledge about finances. Because I believe that with this extra time invested, I will be more capable to profit from my future salary with wise financial decisions. Capitalism has given us the internet. And the internet is full of knowledge. And especially the internet has enabled me to invest time into other things that interest me.
None of the good things you mentioned are the result of capitalism and are in fact strangled by capitalism. The internet started as a military project, which is not inherently capitalist, and if anything the internet as we know it is an example of the potential of anarchism. Same with much of our infrastructure, such as international railways/highways, public libraries, state and national parks…
You also grossly overestimate how much your choices and hard work contribute to success while underestimating sheer luck and privilege.
I … can’t really respond to everything you wrote, partially because it’s a borderline gish gallop, but most of your statements have been addressed by leftist and post-leftist literature.
I’d recommend reading up on anarcho-communism and anarcho-primitivism. They’re quite different theories that work to solve the unjust and destructive system of capitalism. Also read up on the history of leftist movements in Latin America and how US intervention was used to derail them (US is responsible for the rise of authoritarianism/Soviet alignment in Cuba and the derailment of Sandinistas in Nicaragua, just as two examples.) While not specifically leftist, I’d also recommend reading something like Caste by Isabel Wilkerson to understand racial hierarchies and Everyday Sexism by Lara Bates about gender hierarchies.
Frankly, capitalism is killing our people and destroying the planet, and it urgently needs to be stopped. It’s an inherently destructive system, and it can’t be fixed. It must be replaced.
Capitalism has been a main driver of innovation and applied sciences. Under Capitalism it was possible to enhance our lives in an unbelievable short timespan. Capitalism is just less restrictive. Socialism is always in need to control the economy and does not allow for quick adaptations. It’s one of the main reasons why soviets were so good at building rockets, but medical care or material sciences were simply less successful.
I don’t understand your point. Just because the internet started as a military project and the military is not inherently capitalistic, doesn’t mean that any other social form would have been any more successful. Furthermore the internet was and is undergoing enormous change. Mainly driven by capitalism. Capitalism has sped up the development. Something no government founding could have archived to a similar extend.
Railways and highways are build by private companies though. And indeed. With the internet we saw the downfall of public libraries, now only government founded institutions of that kind can still survive. A government is indeed needed as a correction tool, anarchistic capitalism doesn’t work. But that’s not what we got.
No I do not underestimate it. I know that I am privileged to be born in a successful capitalistic country with many options in my life. And yes. Sheer luck doesn’t hurt. Why would you punish anyone for their luck or for their intellect. This is this equality vs equity argument.
And most of leftist and post leftist literature has been addressed by capitalistic economists literature. And those have again by addressed by leftists and then they have been addressed by libertarians again and so on and so forth. It’s a debate that he not yet been settled. So making out Someone to be right and someone to be wrong is not yet and will probably not be possible at all.
And they allow a gap in power to be filled by some dictator. Humans need power structures. Hasn’t history told us yet?
Well maybe communism in Latin America was simply not a solid system of it couldn’t handle foreign attempts of manipulation with bribes?
No thanks. After reading about gender theories I got extrem so annoyed by such irrational theories. I’d rather read something about anarcho-communism.
But so is every other system. Monarchies, Capitalism, Dictatorships, Communism, Feudalism,… It’s not the system that is inherently destructive. It’s people. It is easy to blame a system. That’s for sure. But the truth lies in our nature itself.