Eh, depends on what you mean by “conservative” and “progressive”.
Authoritarianism is the defining characteristic of the right. The right consolidates wealth and power. The left is egalitarian, and is focused on ensuring that wealth and power is shared more evenly. There is no such thing as “auth left”.
If you use “conservative” as a synonym for the right and progressive as a synonym for the left, then there is no such thing as “auth progressive” - you are just using incorrect terminology to talk about different flavors of rightism.
Now if you mean “conservative” as “resistant to change” and “progressive” as “advocates of change” then that’s a completely different thing… but the language is STILL messy, because many who call themselves “conservative” are actually advocates of change in favor or more authoritarianism while those who call themselves “progressive” are also advocates of change, but generally in a leftward anti-authoritarian direction… which once again leads us to “auth progressive” being a contradiction.
Auth left is when progressives are willing to force their ideals on others, whether those ideals are social or fiscal. Forcing people to conform to your ideology is not a trait inherent to either side of the political aisle. For instance, the cultural revolution was a progressive authoritarian movement where wealth and power was stripped by force from people. If you really wanted to, you could make an argument about whether that was justified or not, but no matter how you spin it, it’s authoritarian.
Correct. Rightism is authoritarian. You keep describing rightism while trying attribute it to the left. This is usually the result of blindly accepting Tankie (extreme right) propaganda without taking the time to consider the actual definitions and requirements of leftism and leftist terminology.
Authoritarian: “favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.”
So freedom and tolerance is the opposite of authoritarianism. And yes, the paradox of tolerance means that it doesn’t work to be completely tolerant because then the intolerant will eliminate or overrule the tolerant.
The conclusion from this is that some level of authoritarianism is required to enforce some level of freedom, which are inherently conflicting. That’s why it’s a paradox.
So are you saying that use of force, when justified by the paradox of intolerance, is not right wing? Or are you saying that even progressive movements have elements of rightism?
No. By your own listed definition, authority and authoritarian are different terms. You can have an authority without authoritarianism. You are conflating terminology, and I’m starting to suspect you are doing so in bad faith to perpetuate the tiresome “both sides” fallacy.
I am an authroity in electrocuting myself with car batteries, I can say with perfect authority backed by experience that it hurts like a motherfucker. Wheres the fucken authoritarianism in that statement, sure theres some amount of absolutism in that I am assuming that everyone or atleast most people find electrocution of that type painful. But thats why we have peer review and consensus, get a couple other dumbfucks who arced their car batteries and we’ll find what the consensus is.
Authority is fully seperated from authoritarianism, they simply share a vague as fuck root concept.
I cannot figure out what that user is on about or what they are trying to warn against, I have read all their comments and it’s just a lot of weird hand-wavy vibes, I am like 90% sure they’re some kind of anti-woke-head trying to seed the idea that equality is the same as tyranny or some nonsense that people get hung up on obsessively.
I’m referring to someone having Authority to uphold laws and issue punishment for not following them. Authority in the context I intended is synonymous with power rather than expertise as in your example.
From who by who? Every law strips wealth and power from somebody. Don’t want people to murder each other? Ypu have to take power from murderers and finance that intervention with public coffers, putting a burden on everyone.
You’re oversimplifying what authoritarianism is and what the gradations of “force” are.
Yes I am simplifying it to make a point, since some people in here don’t seem to understand the concept. To elaborate a little more along those simplified lines; Every law is authoritarian. More and stricter laws are more authoritarian. Authoritarianism is a matter of extent. Some is necessary, but too much is bad, and it doesn’t matter if the bad authoritarianism is enforcing left or right wing ideals, it’s bad either way.
But yes authoritarianism usually refers to the point at which it is excessive and bad. That point can be hard to determine though because it is a subjective term. A good example would be covid. At what point did mandates become authoritarian? Or at what point WOULD they have been authoritarian? The answer to that varies by an incredibly wide margin depending on who you ask. Some say that two weeks to slow the spread or stopping flights from known covid hotspots was an overreach. Others were willing to round up unvaccinated and put them in camps.
Eh, depends on what you mean by “conservative” and “progressive”.
Authoritarianism is the defining characteristic of the right. The right consolidates wealth and power. The left is egalitarian, and is focused on ensuring that wealth and power is shared more evenly. There is no such thing as “auth left”.
If you use “conservative” as a synonym for the right and progressive as a synonym for the left, then there is no such thing as “auth progressive” - you are just using incorrect terminology to talk about different flavors of rightism.
Now if you mean “conservative” as “resistant to change” and “progressive” as “advocates of change” then that’s a completely different thing… but the language is STILL messy, because many who call themselves “conservative” are actually advocates of change in favor or more authoritarianism while those who call themselves “progressive” are also advocates of change, but generally in a leftward anti-authoritarian direction… which once again leads us to “auth progressive” being a contradiction.
Auth left is when progressives are willing to force their ideals on others, whether those ideals are social or fiscal. Forcing people to conform to your ideology is not a trait inherent to either side of the political aisle. For instance, the cultural revolution was a progressive authoritarian movement where wealth and power was stripped by force from people. If you really wanted to, you could make an argument about whether that was justified or not, but no matter how you spin it, it’s authoritarian.
No, that is not how any of that works. See the tolerance paradox.
…was rightist.
Correct. Rightism is authoritarian. You keep describing rightism while trying attribute it to the left. This is usually the result of blindly accepting Tankie (extreme right) propaganda without taking the time to consider the actual definitions and requirements of leftism and leftist terminology.
Authoritarian: “favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.”
So freedom and tolerance is the opposite of authoritarianism. And yes, the paradox of tolerance means that it doesn’t work to be completely tolerant because then the intolerant will eliminate or overrule the tolerant.
The conclusion from this is that some level of authoritarianism is required to enforce some level of freedom, which are inherently conflicting. That’s why it’s a paradox.
So are you saying that use of force, when justified by the paradox of intolerance, is not right wing? Or are you saying that even progressive movements have elements of rightism?
No. By your own listed definition, authority and authoritarian are different terms. You can have an authority without authoritarianism. You are conflating terminology, and I’m starting to suspect you are doing so in bad faith to perpetuate the tiresome “both sides” fallacy.
You can’t have an authority without some level of authoritarianism.
I am an authroity in electrocuting myself with car batteries, I can say with perfect authority backed by experience that it hurts like a motherfucker. Wheres the fucken authoritarianism in that statement, sure theres some amount of absolutism in that I am assuming that everyone or atleast most people find electrocution of that type painful. But thats why we have peer review and consensus, get a couple other dumbfucks who arced their car batteries and we’ll find what the consensus is.
Authority is fully seperated from authoritarianism, they simply share a vague as fuck root concept.
I cannot figure out what that user is on about or what they are trying to warn against, I have read all their comments and it’s just a lot of weird hand-wavy vibes, I am like 90% sure they’re some kind of anti-woke-head trying to seed the idea that equality is the same as tyranny or some nonsense that people get hung up on obsessively.
I’m referring to someone having Authority to uphold laws and issue punishment for not following them. Authority in the context I intended is synonymous with power rather than expertise as in your example.
From who by who? Every law strips wealth and power from somebody. Don’t want people to murder each other? Ypu have to take power from murderers and finance that intervention with public coffers, putting a burden on everyone.
You’re oversimplifying what authoritarianism is and what the gradations of “force” are.
Yes I am simplifying it to make a point, since some people in here don’t seem to understand the concept. To elaborate a little more along those simplified lines; Every law is authoritarian. More and stricter laws are more authoritarian. Authoritarianism is a matter of extent. Some is necessary, but too much is bad, and it doesn’t matter if the bad authoritarianism is enforcing left or right wing ideals, it’s bad either way.
But yes authoritarianism usually refers to the point at which it is excessive and bad. That point can be hard to determine though because it is a subjective term. A good example would be covid. At what point did mandates become authoritarian? Or at what point WOULD they have been authoritarian? The answer to that varies by an incredibly wide margin depending on who you ask. Some say that two weeks to slow the spread or stopping flights from known covid hotspots was an overreach. Others were willing to round up unvaccinated and put them in camps.