Hell atheist make God in their own image. I see so many atheist biblical scholars insist that Jesus believed the same thing they do. Compare Erhman’s pacifist politics to the politics he claims Jesus stood for. Despite the historical Jesus, assuming he existed, being a Messianic Jew who would have known that the kingdom of heaven was coming through blood.
I read an atheist scholar on Greek who insisted that the historical Jesus was trying to introduce Greek thought into Judaism. Despite the fact that the historical Jesus would have been illiterate and living in a culture with strict taboos against learning anything Greek. And it’s far more likely that Greek writers later on inserted that stuff in.
I agree but not sure what I am supposed to do. I pointed out that even people who claim to not believe in Jesus being the son of God still build Jesus in their own image. The same way people who do believe he was the son of God.
The first real Mythicist pointed this out. Once you fall under the sway of Jesus you just can’t ever seem to break free.
Ok so it’s your opinion. I have many opinions of my own.
there was a plain old mortal human being who was named ‘Jesus Christ’
Christ is a title not a name. Jesus was not the son of Mr. and Mrs. Christ. It is Greek and means “annoited one”. Coming from the traditions of the area of putting holy oil on the new king.
then when he was killed for being inconvenient to those in power at the time,
Why? No this isnt a flippant question. People who advocate for paying taxes, not starting drama, giving charity to poor people, non-violence, and respecting authority aren’t killed for it. Conduct the experiment yourself. Go to your local city hall and stand up there then give a speech about what he said. See what the powers-that-be do to you. “Hey everyone pay your taxes, listen to your government, if someone is poor try to help them out, dont start drama by cheating with your neighbor’s wife, and violence isnt the answer”. Even fucking North Korea gives awards out for charity work. Why the hell would the historical blood thirsty thing that Pilot was kill a person for telling people that they should be good servants to him?
If Jesus existed Pilot would have showered medals on the guy. Here was a guy walking around a province that was rebelling all the time telling people to respect the government and never be violent. Jesus would have been exactly the kind of man Rome wanted. A Jewish guy who could attract large crowds and tell them all to follow orders.
If you say he didn’t say these things, that the Gospel writers made it up later, I would ask you how do you know they didn’t make up the whole story?
I am an atheist and I care about the truth. It is very very difficult to get a historical Jesus to fit the data. We have to assume so many people acted in unexpected ways in a precise sequence of events.
You are right however sometimes mythology does have roots in the truth. Judaism already had a story about a man leading a revolt, dying in combat, and his young follower taking over. The Macabees. James the Just would have been able to exploit that story in creating his mythical brother.
Why would I? I don’t think he did. Was I not clear? I think Paul encountered a group calling itself a “Christus” in Greek “the anointed ones”, and played with their legends+James created scams. The only way I can get the historical data that we do have to fit is to assume that there was no historical Jesus.
However there are people who disagree with me and I was speaking about what those people who disagree with me say and do. If I told you that there are Mormons in Utah that doesn’t mean I am a follower of Joseph Smith.
You’re talking about Hellenistic Judaism, which was definitely a thing for a century or two leading up to Christianity, and it’s thought to have been subsumed into it. It’s not an unreasonable theory given that Greek mythology was familiar with the concept of demigods.
I agree it existed and I also agree the KKK exists today.
Starting from the Macabees until about the 4th century the mainstream Jewish view was to have as little as possible to do with anything Greek or anyone else. The stories of the two cultures living nextdoor but rejecting each other are almost comical. One Rabbi would go through a baptism like cleansing if he heard Greek because he feared spittle from a Greek would end up on him. One Jewish man was condemned by the community leaders for wearing a Greek style shoe in the marketplace. People who intermarried could be excuted. Jewish males who didn’t circumcise were hung. Greek philosophy was considered so heretical the very word in English for betrayal of the faith comes from that period (Epicuris -> Epicurean -> Apecoris -> Apostate). The only religious Jews we have any record of studying Greek thought were elderly scholars, presumably because there was less concerns of them becoming heretics.
Just imagine Pat Robertson running a culture for 300 years and you wouldn’t be far off. This was a deeply isolationist culture that looked at anyone assimilating or even just curious as a direct threat. And in case you want to know how we know this it is because they kept records of their religious tyranny. This is the nice version of the story! Who knows how much more horrible and repressive it really was.
In this environment we are supposed to believe an illiterate from the backwards area would not only have access to Plato but know how to convert it into a faith?
Instead what is far more likely was that people who did know of Plato’s work gradually moved the needle generation by generation. Turning a Messianic Jew into a Greek.
Religion ruins everything. Just look at what’s happening in Gaza: you have an entire country trying to exterminate an entire population of people just because they don’t like their religion – and want to take their land.
The best part is that I have no idea which side you are talking about
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Hell atheist make God in their own image. I see so many atheist biblical scholars insist that Jesus believed the same thing they do. Compare Erhman’s pacifist politics to the politics he claims Jesus stood for. Despite the historical Jesus, assuming he existed, being a Messianic Jew who would have known that the kingdom of heaven was coming through blood.
I read an atheist scholar on Greek who insisted that the historical Jesus was trying to introduce Greek thought into Judaism. Despite the fact that the historical Jesus would have been illiterate and living in a culture with strict taboos against learning anything Greek. And it’s far more likely that Greek writers later on inserted that stuff in.
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Shrug
I agree but not sure what I am supposed to do. I pointed out that even people who claim to not believe in Jesus being the son of God still build Jesus in their own image. The same way people who do believe he was the son of God.
The first real Mythicist pointed this out. Once you fall under the sway of Jesus you just can’t ever seem to break free.
I don’t think he existed.
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Ok so it’s your opinion. I have many opinions of my own.
Christ is a title not a name. Jesus was not the son of Mr. and Mrs. Christ. It is Greek and means “annoited one”. Coming from the traditions of the area of putting holy oil on the new king.
Why? No this isnt a flippant question. People who advocate for paying taxes, not starting drama, giving charity to poor people, non-violence, and respecting authority aren’t killed for it. Conduct the experiment yourself. Go to your local city hall and stand up there then give a speech about what he said. See what the powers-that-be do to you. “Hey everyone pay your taxes, listen to your government, if someone is poor try to help them out, dont start drama by cheating with your neighbor’s wife, and violence isnt the answer”. Even fucking North Korea gives awards out for charity work. Why the hell would the historical blood thirsty thing that Pilot was kill a person for telling people that they should be good servants to him?
If Jesus existed Pilot would have showered medals on the guy. Here was a guy walking around a province that was rebelling all the time telling people to respect the government and never be violent. Jesus would have been exactly the kind of man Rome wanted. A Jewish guy who could attract large crowds and tell them all to follow orders.
If you say he didn’t say these things, that the Gospel writers made it up later, I would ask you how do you know they didn’t make up the whole story?
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I am an atheist and I care about the truth. It is very very difficult to get a historical Jesus to fit the data. We have to assume so many people acted in unexpected ways in a precise sequence of events.
You are right however sometimes mythology does have roots in the truth. Judaism already had a story about a man leading a revolt, dying in combat, and his young follower taking over. The Macabees. James the Just would have been able to exploit that story in creating his mythical brother.
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Cool. Prove “the historical Jesus” existed.
Why would I? I don’t think he did. Was I not clear? I think Paul encountered a group calling itself a “Christus” in Greek “the anointed ones”, and played with their legends+James created scams. The only way I can get the historical data that we do have to fit is to assume that there was no historical Jesus.
However there are people who disagree with me and I was speaking about what those people who disagree with me say and do. If I told you that there are Mormons in Utah that doesn’t mean I am a follower of Joseph Smith.
You’re talking about Hellenistic Judaism, which was definitely a thing for a century or two leading up to Christianity, and it’s thought to have been subsumed into it. It’s not an unreasonable theory given that Greek mythology was familiar with the concept of demigods.
I agree it existed and I also agree the KKK exists today.
Starting from the Macabees until about the 4th century the mainstream Jewish view was to have as little as possible to do with anything Greek or anyone else. The stories of the two cultures living nextdoor but rejecting each other are almost comical. One Rabbi would go through a baptism like cleansing if he heard Greek because he feared spittle from a Greek would end up on him. One Jewish man was condemned by the community leaders for wearing a Greek style shoe in the marketplace. People who intermarried could be excuted. Jewish males who didn’t circumcise were hung. Greek philosophy was considered so heretical the very word in English for betrayal of the faith comes from that period (Epicuris -> Epicurean -> Apecoris -> Apostate). The only religious Jews we have any record of studying Greek thought were elderly scholars, presumably because there was less concerns of them becoming heretics.
Just imagine Pat Robertson running a culture for 300 years and you wouldn’t be far off. This was a deeply isolationist culture that looked at anyone assimilating or even just curious as a direct threat. And in case you want to know how we know this it is because they kept records of their religious tyranny. This is the nice version of the story! Who knows how much more horrible and repressive it really was.
In this environment we are supposed to believe an illiterate from the backwards area would not only have access to Plato but know how to convert it into a faith?
Instead what is far more likely was that people who did know of Plato’s work gradually moved the needle generation by generation. Turning a Messianic Jew into a Greek.
The best part is that I have no idea which side you are talking about
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