Very nice research into cows. Yes, nature would wipe the freaks out. And that would in my opinion be much preferable, because breeding them into existence just to kill them for their meat isn’t ethical at all. If we really want to save this particular species, we should do so in animal sanctuaries where animals are treated with respect. But these are essentially domesticated animals, so we’d have to keep taking care of them ad infinitum just for the love of these individuals.
Indeed the way cows are treated in India is super hypocritical. The cow is revered and treated as shit at the same time. In some Hindu ceremonies they revere the cow by pouring milk over a cow statue. Milk that of course was obtained by stealing baby calves from their mothers and shipping them off to the milk or meat industry. Doh!
We agree on pigs, but whether pigs will gladly eat me or not has no bearing on whether we should be justified in killing them or not. We also don’t go around killing lions and sharks. Perhaps only if they form an acute danger to humans, but otherwise we just leave them alone. Pigs aren’t lions though.
My opinion on lab grown meat is simple: I am all for it. We don’t need everybody to go vegan, but just a large enough minority for there to be massive systemic changes. Different figures have been thrown out there: 10%, 15% or 25% of the population needs to change in order for the majority to change. Lab grown meat will likely play an important role in getting us to that tipping point. It’ll take a while, but eventually we’ll look back in disgust at how we used to treat animals.
On fishing: a fish is an animal, an individual and I believe all animals/individuals should be treated with some form of respect. We shouldn’t just kill them for the fun of it. Yeah, but you say: “We do it to eat them. We use every part! And the way we kill it is better than if it would be caught by a predator” I understand, but you don’t need to eat them. You can easily eat something else. You’ve got an abundance of choice, but instead you decide to be a dick to an animal. And it’s not either you kill it now or another predator kills it. No it’s either you kill it or you don’t and it gets to live for however much longer that may be. Even other animals don’t tend to just go around killing for fun. Lions typically don’t go killing other animals just because they like it. They do it because they have to. However, we do it because it’s fun. The fun of the hunt, the fun of the taste pleasure. It’s not a survival situation. We are not carnivore predators neither are we in a survival situation. It comes down to fun. And fun isn’t good enough of a reason to kill an animal. Care to disagree?
The real reason why we fish is because we used to have to. But now we don’t have to anymore and we’re either too ignorant and/or too unempathetic to reflect on the situation anew and draw the conclusion that it doesn’t make any sense anymore. We’re just slow to adapt to the times, just like we were with racism, slavery, gay rights, women’s rights, separating church from state, quitting tobacco, etc. It’s societal intertia.
And just because the world is a brutal place and lots of animals are killing lots of other animals, doesn’t mean we are justified in doing the same or worse. I mean, even if I would be a vegan all my life, but kill one 6 month old pig for fun just one time in my life, I still wouldn’t be able to justify that. A bad thing doesn’t become a good thing, just because it isn’t as bad as something else. Killing a pig when I absolutely don’t have to is a bad thing, wouldn’t you say? Even if people are ordering pepperoni pizza’s as if there are no victims involved. I can’t just justify it by saying that other people or other animals do worse.
Look, there is lots of debate about morality and lots of different moral system. I am utilitarian myself, but regardless of your stance: I believe we can all agree that killing is universally considered to not be a good thing to do to sentient beings right? So whether I kill my victim locally on a farm while playing some Bach music in the background and right after a massage and a nice prayer of respect. It doesn’t make it a good thing. The victim doesn’t give two cents that you kill it on a local farm or in a slaughterhouse with a bolt gun to the brain. It’s an individual that doesn’t want to die.
If it would be environmental issue then we could also just reduce our meat intake and feel that we’re doing a good thing. But we’re not doing a good thing when we’re needlessly killing innocent sentient beings. Therefore it is fundamentally an ethical issue, because as of yet I have not yet heard anyone make any good ethical argument for the killing of animals when we don’t need to. You can also check out this debate wiki.
Very nice research into cows. Yes, nature would wipe the freaks out. And that would in my opinion be much preferable, because breeding them into existence just to kill them for their meat isn’t ethical at all. If we really want to save this particular species, we should do so in animal sanctuaries where animals are treated with respect. But these are essentially domesticated animals, so we’d have to keep taking care of them ad infinitum just for the love of these individuals.
Indeed the way cows are treated in India is super hypocritical. The cow is revered and treated as shit at the same time. In some Hindu ceremonies they revere the cow by pouring milk over a cow statue. Milk that of course was obtained by stealing baby calves from their mothers and shipping them off to the milk or meat industry. Doh!
We agree on pigs, but whether pigs will gladly eat me or not has no bearing on whether we should be justified in killing them or not. We also don’t go around killing lions and sharks. Perhaps only if they form an acute danger to humans, but otherwise we just leave them alone. Pigs aren’t lions though.
My opinion on lab grown meat is simple: I am all for it. We don’t need everybody to go vegan, but just a large enough minority for there to be massive systemic changes. Different figures have been thrown out there: 10%, 15% or 25% of the population needs to change in order for the majority to change. Lab grown meat will likely play an important role in getting us to that tipping point. It’ll take a while, but eventually we’ll look back in disgust at how we used to treat animals.
On fishing: a fish is an animal, an individual and I believe all animals/individuals should be treated with some form of respect. We shouldn’t just kill them for the fun of it. Yeah, but you say: “We do it to eat them. We use every part! And the way we kill it is better than if it would be caught by a predator” I understand, but you don’t need to eat them. You can easily eat something else. You’ve got an abundance of choice, but instead you decide to be a dick to an animal. And it’s not either you kill it now or another predator kills it. No it’s either you kill it or you don’t and it gets to live for however much longer that may be. Even other animals don’t tend to just go around killing for fun. Lions typically don’t go killing other animals just because they like it. They do it because they have to. However, we do it because it’s fun. The fun of the hunt, the fun of the taste pleasure. It’s not a survival situation. We are not carnivore predators neither are we in a survival situation. It comes down to fun. And fun isn’t good enough of a reason to kill an animal. Care to disagree?
The real reason why we fish is because we used to have to. But now we don’t have to anymore and we’re either too ignorant and/or too unempathetic to reflect on the situation anew and draw the conclusion that it doesn’t make any sense anymore. We’re just slow to adapt to the times, just like we were with racism, slavery, gay rights, women’s rights, separating church from state, quitting tobacco, etc. It’s societal intertia.
And just because the world is a brutal place and lots of animals are killing lots of other animals, doesn’t mean we are justified in doing the same or worse. I mean, even if I would be a vegan all my life, but kill one 6 month old pig for fun just one time in my life, I still wouldn’t be able to justify that. A bad thing doesn’t become a good thing, just because it isn’t as bad as something else. Killing a pig when I absolutely don’t have to is a bad thing, wouldn’t you say? Even if people are ordering pepperoni pizza’s as if there are no victims involved. I can’t just justify it by saying that other people or other animals do worse.
Look, there is lots of debate about morality and lots of different moral system. I am utilitarian myself, but regardless of your stance: I believe we can all agree that killing is universally considered to not be a good thing to do to sentient beings right? So whether I kill my victim locally on a farm while playing some Bach music in the background and right after a massage and a nice prayer of respect. It doesn’t make it a good thing. The victim doesn’t give two cents that you kill it on a local farm or in a slaughterhouse with a bolt gun to the brain. It’s an individual that doesn’t want to die.
If you want to do a deep dive into the philosophy of animal ethics I can recommend the book Animal Liberation by Peter Singer. Or if you’d like to watch an interesting video I can recommend this talk by Gary l. Francione.
If it would be environmental issue then we could also just reduce our meat intake and feel that we’re doing a good thing. But we’re not doing a good thing when we’re needlessly killing innocent sentient beings. Therefore it is fundamentally an ethical issue, because as of yet I have not yet heard anyone make any good ethical argument for the killing of animals when we don’t need to. You can also check out this debate wiki.