porn sucks and I hate how pervasive it is in our society, especially on the internet. Any positive thing gets compared to porn, “foodporn”, “map porn”, etc., idk call me puritanical but I just find it gross.
Also, I’m too young to know the answer to this, but what effect do we think internet porn has had on spawning a generation of incels? Idk what the pre-porn incel market was like.
Sex is great, intimacy is wonderful, but I don’t like porn.
porn didn’t create any incels, people who have no sex education or ‘visualisation’ still have the social expectations of patriarchy. ‘internet porn’ largely coincides with the long-run alienation trends of the last decades, it’s a relatively unimportant part compared to economic outlooks and social isolation.
idk, historically the alternatives might have been worse; would the ‘incel’ archetype be more likely to be violent with more available prostitution? it’s easy to imagine the stewing that goes on in shut-in incel’s minds but before we had as widespread porn, seeking out transactional sexual gratification would involve them interfacing vulnerable laborers.
The prevalence of the male incel identity coincides with sexual harassment becoming less socially acceptable.
That’s the main part of it. It’s the shadow of lingering social misogyny trying to reassert itself through the very real phemenons of alienation and loneliness.
Also, I’m too young to know the answer to this, but what effect do we think internet porn has had on spawning a generation of incels? Idk what the pre-porn incel market was like.
idk, I think it’s hard to separate the effects of internet porn from the effects of the internet in general. i think regular ol’ internet forums (some of which host porn but not necessarily as the main focus) are the biggest factor in the proliferation of “incel” mindsets / identities. you know, before the internet if you were somebody who can’t get laid, you’d maybe talk to your friends about it and get encouragement or advice, or talk to family, or just be sad basically. the chances of you independently coming to the conclusion that there’s something about you that makes you completely unlovable (maybe even to absurdly specific degrees, such as that you will never be able to get laid because your wrists are too narrow) and that the problem will never ever get better and that all women are unthinking evil creatures who want unlovable men like you to die so they never have to be reminded that anyone but exists… are pretty slim. nobody comes up with those kinds of ideas on their own, that requires insular groups that take time feeding each other’s frustrations and insecurities and slowly building up a mythology. if you dont have access to the internet, you’re going to have to discuss your difficult love life with someone who can get laid. but incel internet forums provide an extremely unhealthy outlet for those frustrations that don’t involve ever talking to someone who can get laid.
I also don’t think internet porn is significantly more harmful than the good ol’ magazines and VHS tapes and whatever that we had before. though, one way in that it is obviously more harmful is in the sheer availability. if you’ve got a dirty magazine you’ve got, you know, one magazine of porn. if you’ve got a smartphone you’ve got more porn than you could ever desire to look at in a hundred lifetimes. and if you’re a kid, you at least have to hide a dirty magazine. teens these days have basically no risk of being caught being addicted to (even extremely niche) pornography. i think that’s gonna be the biggest effect of internet porn for the next few generations. when millennials (and anyone older) were growing up, their experience with porn, if any, was maybe a few dirty magazines where they could look at some tits. now kids are growing up totally addicted to enormous amounts of wild, hardcore porn.
i generally agree with you that porn is bad. by volume, anyway. like 99.999% of all porn is bad for a wide variety of reasons. I think it’s possible to make porn ethically. Very difficult unless there are no humans involved (like with drawings or pure writing), and even then it’s still possible to do it unethically (sexualizing children still sucks even if there are no real kids involved, for example)
I do think that the 99.999% of porn I’m talking about should be illegal, though.
in a utopian vision of communism porn absolutely would not exist. far from the first thing on the list (i agree making it illegal under current conditions as a lone act would be useless and probably regressive) but if we take the abolition of exploitation seriously it’s gotta go
Also, I’m too young to know the answer to this, but what effect do we think internet porn has had on spawning a generation of incels? Idk what the pre-porn incel market was like.
Sex is great, intimacy is wonderful, but I don’t like porn.
Doesn’t mean it should be illegal tho
porn didn’t create any incels, people who have no sex education or ‘visualisation’ still have the social expectations of patriarchy. ‘internet porn’ largely coincides with the long-run alienation trends of the last decades, it’s a relatively unimportant part compared to economic outlooks and social isolation.
Good distinction, I think porn hones incels rather than creates them
idk, historically the alternatives might have been worse; would the ‘incel’ archetype be more likely to be violent with more available prostitution? it’s easy to imagine the stewing that goes on in shut-in incel’s minds but before we had as widespread porn, seeking out transactional sexual gratification would involve them interfacing vulnerable laborers.
I would at least ban porn networks, since they are nothing more than socially accepted pimping.
The prevalence of the male incel identity coincides with sexual harassment becoming less socially acceptable.
That’s the main part of it. It’s the shadow of lingering social misogyny trying to reassert itself through the very real phemenons of alienation and loneliness.
idk, I think it’s hard to separate the effects of internet porn from the effects of the internet in general. i think regular ol’ internet forums (some of which host porn but not necessarily as the main focus) are the biggest factor in the proliferation of “incel” mindsets / identities. you know, before the internet if you were somebody who can’t get laid, you’d maybe talk to your friends about it and get encouragement or advice, or talk to family, or just be sad basically. the chances of you independently coming to the conclusion that there’s something about you that makes you completely unlovable (maybe even to absurdly specific degrees, such as that you will never be able to get laid because your wrists are too narrow) and that the problem will never ever get better and that all women are unthinking evil creatures who want unlovable men like you to die so they never have to be reminded that anyone but
exists… are pretty slim. nobody comes up with those kinds of ideas on their own, that requires insular groups that take time feeding each other’s frustrations and insecurities and slowly building up a mythology. if you dont have access to the internet, you’re going to have to discuss your difficult love life with someone who can get laid. but incel internet forums provide an extremely unhealthy outlet for those frustrations that don’t involve ever talking to someone who can get laid.
I also don’t think internet porn is significantly more harmful than the good ol’ magazines and VHS tapes and whatever that we had before. though, one way in that it is obviously more harmful is in the sheer availability. if you’ve got a dirty magazine you’ve got, you know, one magazine of porn. if you’ve got a smartphone you’ve got more porn than you could ever desire to look at in a hundred lifetimes. and if you’re a kid, you at least have to hide a dirty magazine. teens these days have basically no risk of being caught being addicted to (even extremely niche) pornography. i think that’s gonna be the biggest effect of internet porn for the next few generations. when millennials (and anyone older) were growing up, their experience with porn, if any, was maybe a few dirty magazines where they could look at some tits. now kids are growing up totally addicted to enormous amounts of wild, hardcore porn.
i generally agree with you that porn is bad. by volume, anyway. like 99.999% of all porn is bad for a wide variety of reasons. I think it’s possible to make porn ethically. Very difficult unless there are no humans involved (like with drawings or pure writing), and even then it’s still possible to do it unethically (sexualizing children still sucks even if there are no real kids involved, for example)
I do think that the 99.999% of porn I’m talking about should be illegal, though.
I’m so extremely glad I didn’t get a smartphone until after I started dating
in a utopian vision of communism porn absolutely would not exist. far from the first thing on the list (i agree making it illegal under current conditions as a lone act would be useless and probably regressive) but if we take the abolition of exploitation seriously it’s gotta go