Clarification Edit: for people who speak English natively and are learning a second language

  • Anatares@lemmynsfw.com
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    6 months ago

    I don’t feel it’s particularly broken honestly. Some languages are more consistent with their rules and therefore easier to learn but English is surprisingly consistent in practice/sound throughout the world. You also don’t need to memorize the gender of a washing machine…

    • leftzero@lemmynsfw.com
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      6 months ago

      I don’t feel it’s particularly broken honestly.

      There are five (5) ways of pronouncing oo, if you people haven’t added a sixth one since the last time I looked.

      Radii, fiancé, and façade are apparently perfectly cromulent English words that native English speakers who’ve never seen an ii, an é, or a ç are supposed to be able to pronounce correctly…

      Your words for food animals come from completely different and unrelated languages depending on whether the animal is alive or dead (since the people who tended to the farms and the people who actually ate their meat spoke different languages)…

      There are probably more irregular verbs than regular ones… (again, probably because of English really being three different languages in a trenchcoat)…

      At some point in the sixteenth century you apparently just up and decided to randomly switch the pronunciation of all your vowels… without changing how you wrote them

      While most languages have developed some form of standard and regulative body, English seems like it’d rather leave the whole grammar, orthography, pronunciation, and whatnot situation as an exercise for the victim speaker, writer, or reader

      Yeah, no, not particularly broken at all… 😒

      • Anatares@lemmynsfw.com
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        6 months ago

        I’m just pointing out the consistency in spoken form. Your criticisms are valid from a technical perspective, the best kind of correct…

        • leftzero@lemmynsfw.com
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          6 months ago

          That’s a good thing.

          Nah, man. That’s the abused justifying the abuser. That’s pure Stockholm syndrome.

          There’s no world in which the oos in moon, book, door, blood, brooch, and cooperation (I had forgotten about this one. There are six. SIX! 😩) representing SIX different sounds is a good thing. There simply isn’t.

          A sane language would replace some of those with u, ø, ō, ô, ö, õ, whatever, make some rule so that the poor sod attempting to decipher the written word could begin to know how to pronounce it… but not English. Not English. 😞

      • leftzero@lemmynsfw.com
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        6 months ago

        Someone learning Spanish as a second language will have to remember that it’s máquina and not máquino when speaking or writing it, though (and will then probably be quite confused if they ever meet some guy nicknamed El Máquina, which would somehow be a perfectly cromulent nickname in Spanish).

        Confusing genders when speaking or writing is one of the most common mistakes amongst people new to the language, because while everything else has some form of rule, this doesn’t (sure, when reading or listening you can most of the time use the word ending, and you’ll probably have an article, too, but when you are the one speaking or writing you have no option but to just know a word’s gender, or how it ends, which is the same thing).

    • norimee@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      For what it’s worth, you don’t memorize the gender of things. It’s just difficult, when you learn another language that does it differently. And that’s true for every language you learn, the difficulty lies in how it’s different of your own.

      • leftzero@lemmynsfw.com
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        6 months ago

        I mean, you do memorise them, you just don’t realise you’re doing it because you’re a baby or toddler and babies and toddlers are language sponges, and not very aware of how their own minds work.

        When learning a gendered language as an adult you definitely have no option but to memorise what gender each word uses, since there’s generally no specific rule, just how the language happened to evolve. (And this can be particularly hard if your native language is gendered, but you’re trying to learn one that genders words differently, for instance when learning German coming from a Romance language, or vice versa.)

              • leftzero@lemmynsfw.com
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                6 months ago

                Except many languages’ vocabularies share common roots (e.g. Latin and Greek) even if the languages themselves don’t, so quite often someone learning Spanish will be able to make an educated attempt at figuring out the equivalent Spanish word (for instance, an English speaker might figure out that machinemáquin_)… but will have no clue about the gender, having a 50% chance of ending up with, say, máquino.

                And, as I said, misgendering words seems to be a relatively common mistake for people learning Spanish without having a Romance language base.