The EU Council and its participants have decided to withdraw the vote on the contentious Chat Control plan proposed by Belgium, the current EU President.

Moritz Körner, Member of the European Parliament, disclosed the decision on Twitter. Swedish publisher SVG said, “The question was removed at the last moment from Thursday’s ambassadorial meeting in Brussels”.

  • arymandias@feddit.deEnglish
    201·
    6 months ago

    They are just edging this bill till nobody pays attention. Democracy at work!

    • melroy@kbin.melroy.org
      703·
      6 months ago

      Indeed, until the next time, where it doesn’t have enough news coverage. China 2.0 here we come.

  • Dojan@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1381·
    6 months ago

    I’m still fucking mad the Left voted yes for this. Campaigning on a no and then turning their coats immediately after the elections. Disgraceful, and I hope whichever party members are responsible get booted.

    • wewbull@feddit.ukEnglish
      708·
      6 months ago

      Don’t make the mistake of thinking that left mean anti-authoritarian. Left or right is an economic stance, and is orthogonal to beliefs surrounding government rights Vs population rights.

      • Dojan@lemmy.worldEnglish
        36·
        6 months ago

        When I say Left, I mean Vänsterpartiet, not some nebulous coalition. See their stance here.

        Chat control was a proposal on an EU level which meant that applications and social media platforms would be forced to scan all of their users messages. The proposal has been put forth by the EU comission as a part of a larger package with the purpose of protecting children against exploitation on the internet. The Left Party considers that the part specifically about chat control wouldn’t contribute to the end goals. There are more effective measures that need to be taken in order to protect children.

        After significant criticism from us and many others the EU parliament has significantly improved the proposal. They have among other things removed all parts regarding automatic scanning. This has meant that all parties now are in support of the EU-parliament position. The proposal is now on hold among the member states and instead another, temporary law has been extended to counter sexual abuse of children on the internet.

        Overall the Left (Vänsterpartiet) campaigns on a position of being against surveillance and the like. The Social Democrats (part of the Left coalition) however is in favour of it, because of course they fucking are. My issue here is obviously that they’re lying to our faces.

        On a much greater scale I have a lot of issues. For the most part I align mostly with V and MP, but we’re talking on a level of like 60-70%, so they don’t actually represent my views particularly well. In the grand scheme of things that’s also not something I’d expect; I’m rather extreme but I also realise that there’s only so much we can do when operating within the system we currently have. Thus I align with the parties that align the closest with the core beliefs I have, V and MP.

        One of my biggest icks when it comes to politics is hiding behind children. It infuriates me because it’s never genuine. It’s never about the fucking children, they’re just a convenient excuse because the moment someone criticises a suggestion, you can turn around and say “Oh so you hate children? Are you a paedophile? Why do you support children being harmed?”

      • oce 🐆@jlai.luEnglish
        151·
        6 months ago

        Left or right is an economic stance

        What about the social stance?

        • Skua@kbin.earth
          91·
          6 months ago

          Also that. But I’d say that wewbull’s point stands that there are more and less authoritarian flavours of that too

        • wewbull@feddit.ukEnglish
          31·
          6 months ago

          Measured on a different axis.

          You can have authoritarian left Stalin’s Russia) and authoritarian right (Nazi Germany). You can have liberal (i.e. non-authoritarian) left and right too.

          It’s clichéd, but the political compass explains the concept, but it’s still only one extra dimension. It’s still far better than just left Vs right.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        104·
        6 months ago

        Check out the political compass, which is an interesting way to conceptualize political leanings. I don’t think the test is particularly good (I have issues with a few of the questions), but the answer I get is pretty close to where I think I should be placed, so maybe there’s some merit to it.

        I’m consistently in the bottom half near the center line, and the two major parties in my country are in the top right. I guess that just demonstrates why I fail to see much difference in what I care about in the two major parties, since moving toward either direction is a move away from me.

        Anyway, I hope this is a decent demonstration of how the left/right divide doesn’t tell the whole story.

        • uis@lemm.eeEnglish
          35·
          6 months ago

          The problem with political compass arises when you understand that political and economic freedoms are in conflict with each other under capitalism.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            4·
            6 months ago

            ? The compass takes economic systems into account. Left vs right is socialism vs free market capitalism, and top vs bottom is authoritarianism vs libertarianism.

            So if you think capitalism causes issues, you’d nudge those ideologies further up the authoritarian spectrum.

      • QuantumSoul@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        3·
        6 months ago

        Not exactly orthogonal, left right could be viewed as an Principal Component Analysis reduced to only one axis. So there are correlations between stances but so much dimensions lost that it’s nearly useless

          • Lifter@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
            2·
            6 months ago

            That’s not true at all, mathematically. That’s why we have a measurement for co-variance or correlation. If two dimensions are 100 correlation, they can most definitely be reduced to one.

            • wewbull@feddit.ukEnglish
              1·
              6 months ago

              …but they’re not in 100 percent correlation in this case, and you’re naive if you think they are .

      • uis@lemm.eeEnglish
        21·
        6 months ago

        Left or right is an economic stance, and is orthogonal to beliefs surrounding government rights Vs population rights.

        Left or right is political stance. The closest you can get it to economy is by saying “left prioritizes political freedoms, while right economic”.

          • uis@lemm.eeEnglish
            1·
            6 months ago

            I know about USA only what I can find on the internet. I mean, statement “Russia is American colony” isn’t that far from truth, but it isn’t USA itself.

  • LordCrom@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1131·
    6 months ago

    They are just delaying the vote for another time… Hoping that next time it will fly under the radar and there won’t be a huge backlash of discontent.

    If the vote fail, they just wait a year, rename it, and try again.

    Same thing happens in the US. Law proposed that people hate, people organize, start a campaign that fights for news airtime, bringing awareness of the dickery about to happen, and then succeed after a hard battle and many many volunteer hours spent.

    In 6 months Congress just renames it the “I love kittens” act and sticks it on a must pass bill.

    Fighting bullshit laws is exhausting…

    • Treczoks@lemmy.worldEnglish
      241·
      6 months ago

      Don’t be surprise if it reappears as an attachment to a fishing quota law or a law defining sizes for underwear…

      • uis@lemm.eeEnglish
        1·
        6 months ago

        it reappears as an attachment to a fishing quota law or a law defining sizes for underwear

        Sounds very Putin.

        • Treczoks@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          6 months ago

          Actually, this is a common occurance in the US and EU. One of the previous, court-captured laws actually was riding with fishing quota regulations.

          • Honytawk@lemmy.zipEnglish
            3·
            6 months ago

            Yeah, Putin doesn’t have to hide anything because nobody is allowed to object to any crazy laws he invents.

      • cows_are_underrated@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        16·
        6 months ago

        Idk about the EU(there have been cases that were exactly this, an example would be Article 13), but I can say to you, that this devinetively happens in Germany. Our conservatives party wants to pass a law, that would track and save all your online activity(Vorratsdatenspeicherung/ data preservation) to fight “paedophiles and terrorists” they bring it up once in a while, even tho, our federal court already said, that its illegal.

    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      6 months ago

      Hungary will take the EU presidency, they just name it “child protection” and will smear everyone as a pedophile who objects it.

  • shortwavesurfer@monero.townEnglish
    94·
    6 months ago

    Wasn’t this rejected once already? Perhaps if they wanted to do something useful, they should pass something that says that if something is majority disliked twice or something, then it should be withdrawn and not proposed again for at least 100 years.

    • Diplomjodler@lemmy.worldEnglish
      971·
      6 months ago

      They will keep trying again and again and again. The assault on privacy has been going on for decades and it will never stop.

      • Dasnap@lemmy.worldEnglish
        73·
        6 months ago

        You’ve gotta defend for an infinite amount of time, but they’ve only gotta succeed once.

        • dactylotheca@suppo.fiEnglish
          381·
          6 months ago

          Yep, and as I pointed out in another comment in this thread, Chat Control isn’t the only piece of legislation like this that’s in the works.

          Considering that the extreme right just won big, I have no doubt that one of these fascist surveillance packages will go through. Yeah, at first it may be used for catching criminals, until it isn’t

          • Grippler@feddit.dkEnglish
            29·
            6 months ago

            Nono, it will always only be used to catch criminals, that won’t change…it’s what makes someone a criminal that changes.

          • uis@lemm.eeEnglish
            11·
            6 months ago

            Considering that the extreme right just won big

            Someone won big yachts from Putin.

            • PonyOfWar@pawb.socialEnglish
              16·
              6 months ago

              Source? In Germany at least that’s not the case, it’s mainly the conservatives who push for it. In the original vote, only the greens clearly opposed it. Later on, SPD (center-left) and FDP (liberal) changed course to also oppose it. Couldn’t find results for other countries though, so I’m genuinely curious.

              • melroy@kbin.melroy.org
                111·
                6 months ago

                I believe all parties in EU are not really understanding technology in general. So I think it’s a very bad decision to give these people power over these kinds of rules. They just have no idea what they are doing frankly.

                • dactylotheca@suppo.fiEnglish
                  5·
                  6 months ago

                  Yep, no disagreement there. This sort of mass surveillance is a fucking terrible idea no matter who’s behind the wheel

                • uis@lemm.eeEnglish
                  1·
                  6 months ago

                  I believe all parties in EU are not really understanding technology in general.

                  There are pirates. Well, after last elections it seems to be the pirate. Only one.

        • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.deEnglish
          5·
          6 months ago

          Yes. Technically, a similar vote could repeal the law just as easily but there is a history of governments not giving their power away easily; implementing it also sets a precedent and creates technical enforcement options for other governments willing to go through with something similar in the future, or for hackers to exploit because gov-rooted devices will remain in operation for years after the potential repeal.

      • dactylotheca@suppo.fiEnglish
        17·
        6 months ago

        And “Chat Control” isn’t even the only thing like this in the pipeline. There’s the so-called “security by design” bullshit (which does the opposite of what then name implies) that’s actually even worse than Chat Control and has also been worked on in secret, and which’d include mass scale surveillance of not just photos but pretty much everything, and is much more likely to pass than Chat Control.

    • cmeio@lemmy.worldEnglish
      18·
      6 months ago

      Such a rule is basically un-enforceable. Because it is nearly never exactly the same text. So it is always the first time voted on.

    • PonyOfWar@pawb.socialEnglish
      81·
      6 months ago

      Either way they can just give it a new name and change some details to propose it again. Like how they made it “voluntary” this time (but you can only send text if you don’t agree).

    • MonkderDritte@feddit.deEnglish
      5·
      6 months ago

      Better define some basic human rights as a core tenet and fire repeat offenders, because they are a danger to the population.

  • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.worldEnglish
    79·
    6 months ago

    Find the politicians by name who voted yes for this, and display them in public.

    Let the capable open source community then take over going through their phones, since they must be OK with their phones being scanned, right?

    • ripcord@lemmy.worldEnglish
      23·
      6 months ago

      At least some of them were discussion giving themselves an exception from it. So no.

    • zaphod@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      1·
      6 months ago

      First of all it was in the council, so not really individual politicians but the governments/ministers of member countries, and second they didn’t vote, it was withdrawn.

      • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        6 months ago

        We got lucky this time. Won’t be the case next time.

        Also, even if it’s entire governments voting, there must be a way to find politicians who are pro and against this, yes? Pretty sure governments had an internal vote and they came up with their decision based on said vote

        • zaphod@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          2·
          6 months ago

          I’d assume people already know who their government is and who of them favours policies like this.

  • ಠ_ಠ@infosec.pubEnglish
    73·
    6 months ago

    Note the vote was withdrawn, not actually voted against. They’re pushing this for a later date because there was no majority.

    “The EU Council did not make a decision on chat control today, as the agenda item was removed due to the lack of a majority, (…)

    Belgium’s draft law, (…) was instead postponed indefinitely. (…) Belgium cannot currently present a proposal that would gain a majority. In July, the Council Presidency will transfer from Belgium to Hungary, which has stated its intention to advance negotiations on chat control as part of its work program.

  • Thorny_Insight@lemm.eeEnglish
    52·
    6 months ago

    So I assume that since it was withdrawn, this doesn’t set a precedent and it’s only a matter of time untill they try to sneak it thru with a different name.

  • PonyOfWar@pawb.socialEnglish
    40·
    6 months ago

    Nice. I guess they didn’t expect to get a majority to support it anymore. Definitely a win for now, but I’m sure they’ll try again.

  • Blastboom Strice@mander.xyzEnglish
    32·
    6 months ago

    Lets gooooo🔥

    (It has happened in the past, it will probably happen again in a few months, but still, its a win!)

  • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    201·
    6 months ago

    I am suspicious they realized that they weren’t going to be able to make a loophole for themselves - I’ve seen several articles in the last week on how they were trying to do that.