All that hand wringing over what kind of protest should be ok, you guys are exhausting. The kind of protest doesn’t make a difference at all. A lot of people will say it’s unacceptable no matter what. I’ll even admit sometimes a protest misses the mark, but I’m still glad they did it.
The kids are alright
My only opinion is that if the protest dosen’t hurt the owner class, then it’s not going to do anything anyway.
Any protest is better than complaining or arguing on the internet. I’ll let the tactics to the actual people doing their actions. Nothing but encouragement from me 👍
The protest isn’t intended to hurt the owner class. The protest is intended to draw attention to the issue. We’re talking about it therefore it’s an effective form of protest.
Without protests like this we go about our lives worrying about bills and ignore the literal apocalyptic catastrophe we’re nose-diving into.
How would your reaction have been if it wasn’t a cultural artifact creating by Europeans? Say they did it at Native American site or Aboriginal?
it wasn’t, though.
Perhaps if you could name the site, the protestes, the cause and the method we could go “Yeah that would be much/slightly better/worse” but I don’t think we’d get much more out of it than that.
Don’t waste energy categorizing right or wrong ways to protest. All this is a distraction from the actual issues.
Agreed. The more we argue about the “how” of the protests, the more we’re distracted from what they’re actually protesting about. The most effective way of stopping people complaining about something isn’t to shut them up, but to fix the thing.
If someone’s poor and can’t afford to buy food, no amount of fines or jail time will prevent them from going back to stealing food the second they get out because - guess what - they’re still fucking poor. There’s a food bank near where I lived a while ago that notoriously had long lines. Slowly shuffling forward in a queue that screams “I’m poor” must be uncomfortable, but they’re still not stealing food while they have an alternative.
If you want people to stop vandalising shit in their outrage over exploitation and greed, fucking do something about the exploitation and greed. I’m sure those people could have thought of more pleasant ways to spend their time than creating their cornflour pigment, driving out there and getting arrested to make a point without leaving lasting damage.
Don’t tell me what to do.
I wasn’t really, only in a rhetorical sense. You’re kinda being a dick about it, tho. Are you on a mission to be the most downvoted commenter or something? Don’t let me get in your way.
Pretty sure this guy just runs around Lemmy trying to stir things up. I had a run-in with him recently that was needless contentious and I’m not surprised to see him doing the same thing here
That’s what I thought, yeah. Some people…
If it’s as non-destructive as the rest of their protests, then I’d have nothing against it
As a european, i dont give a shit. As a german, they could have blown up the brandenburg gate for all i care
Gotcha. So now we know the answer.
It depends. I think that protest goes to far, if it really damages a building. Since this didn’t its all right.
Oh, poor building, poor monuments, poor rocks. If only we have any way to declare our oposition againt bilionaires literally destroying the whole ecosystems, destroying people lives and health. But for fucking sake, the poor, orange painted monument. those damn protesters crossed uncrossable line. I will not support them anymore!
I sure hope no buildings are damaged as society collapses from climate change strain
Any protest that doesn’t physically damage buildings owned by the fossil fuel industry aren’t going far enough
This comment is advocating for property damage
Just Stop Oil said the paint was made of cornstarch and would dissolve in the rain.
Merriman said experts cleaned the orange powder from the stones because they were concerned about how it might react to water.
Might.
So because it could in the future maybe possibly damage it in some unspecified amount, they cleaned it off to be super sure there will be no damage.
So what fucking damage that really happened in the real world are you talking about?
I never talked about damage at Stonehege. I said, that damaging buildings how’s to far. They didn’t damage Stonehenge so its fine.
Gotcha. Given how the post we’re replying to is about Stonehenge, I guess I assumed that’s what you’re talking about
I think it’s a bit unfair they call it just “paint” when it was merely cornstarch that would wash off by itself.
There’s a huge difference in the degree of vandalism if it’s something that wash off by itself.How and what will these crazy activists vandalize next? Shining a flashlight at the pyramids?!
I’m sorry, I think you mean “blasting the pyramids with photons.”
photons traveling at the speed of light too! that’s quite dangerous
stealing the moon
TO RAISE AWARENESS, WE WILL BE TURNING OFF THE SUN TONIGHT AT (checks weather.gov) 8:02PM
First of all, you have no proof that it was I who stole the moon.
Second of all, after I did steal the moon, I put it back.
Disgusting. What monsters! Mountains need darkness, are they trying to make them sleep deprived and angry? That’s how volcanos are made…
It’s possible. And I think it’s likely. That the activists wanted this exact news cycle, where they falsely report that there is damage, gaining widespread coverage, and drawing attention their way, only for people to later learn that it was temporary and grow to respect the act.
Possibly. I’d imagine the vast majority of people don’t see the followup that there wasn’t damage, here, or the Mona Lisa, or the other events. The goal was outrage coverage for sure, and without causing damage so anyone who actually cares is fine with it. The media will just call it paint, and now that the potential for damage is clear they’ll stop talking about it.
This is by design and most people fell for it entirely. Even the second highest content in this thread is carrying water for big oil.
Media uses language like this on purpose, most of their copy comes from single-sources and everyone on every news station is repeating the same rhetoric. They did this with the soup/painting incident as well, making it seem like the protestors ruined priceless artifacts instead of spilling harmless food products on a sheet of plexiglass.
Paint washes off also given enough time.
But Flying Squid said it was irreparably damaged with crack seepage or whatever
Why are you lying about what I said?
Is this an example of positivity and productivity, the things you claimed I lacked?
It’s stone. Stone is full of cracks. It will get into those cracks and not wash off.
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Interesting that you aren’t linking to where I said that. Perhaps it was because I said it in the other thread yesterday and not today after I read this article and found out I was wrong?
Is it that you’re being highly dishonest or is that just my negativity and lack of productivity that made me lack psychic powers?
So you said it yesterday without any proof or knowledge? Why would you make such a statement when you come from a place of ignorance? Would you have come here and declared you’ve reversed your position and apologized to the people you zealously argued against from said place of ignorance or did you only do so when called out?
I speculated yesterday and they dishonestly took what I said out of context.
“Said” is past tense. Yesterday, when you were pretending to be an authority on historic rocks, you said it wouldn’t wash off. I didn’t see that thread and immediately understood what they meant.
They weren’t being even slightly dishonest, but it’s clear you are. Would you have admitted you were wrong if you weren’t called out by name? My gut feeling is “not a chance”.
When did I ever claim to be an authority? That’s just a lie.
You’re just arguing from a petty and pedantic place while half the globe is frying.
Maybe just shut up. You wont’ regret it, you won’t get stuck ruminating on all these internet strangers who don’t like you, you can get on with your day and let people who care more about our world than old rocks get on with our day as well.
You might read the order of comments here and notice that people are attacking me, not the other way around. You included, I may add.
okay so you’re a victim, maybe someone will wear a colored ribbon for you, changes nothing about my suggestion.
I never claimed to be a victim. You, however, claimed I was the one arguing with people when it’s actually people arguing with me.
It’s not my fault you said something that was false.
You may have assumed I was talking about this thread, and not making a reference to what you went on about for an hour arguing with everyone abiut yesterday (edit: or 2 days ago I guess). But I didn’t say that, and you were wrong.
Ah, so you were just ignoring the fact that I admitted I was wrong in this thread and were just going to pretend that never happened. Which is very productive and not at all negative or tearing me down.
I realize that admitting you are wrong is the worst possible thing you can do on the internet, but I still admitted I was wrong about there being any permanent damage. And was relieved about it.
I think you’re getting attacked because this post is an accusation, first and foremost. It definitely doesn’t feel like it is positive or productive.
Well that certainly gives people an excuse to tell ridiculous lies and take things I said out of context, doesn’t it?
I mean people are saying shit like I claimed to be an authority. When? Where? I didn’t do that.
And I did say I was wrong, but apparently that makes things even worse somehow.
I get it. I think defending yourself against that is probably a lost cause, though, even if that feels bad not to.
As for being an authority, personally, I see that. I think you made a statement and people, reasonably or not, assumed you know something more than they do. You post a lot, so why wouldn’t you know a lot?
I guess for the same reason that Trump won’t show up but doesn’t know a damn thing.
People care more about the old rock placement than the actual air that we breathe today.
I wonder when these protests will turn into actual oil executive assassinations like in Ministry for the Future. We’re already rushing our way into a heat wave mass death event.
Never. That would involve real jail time and they are cowards
My guess is it’s already happening but there’s total media blackout policies around it. If one guy gets assassinated, it’s going to cause so many copycats.
Well good! It’d be fucking travesty to permanently damage a world heritage
Yes and climate change, also caused by people, is going to more than damage a whole shitload of world heritage.
I wonder if increased heat or any other manner of fucked up weather patterns could damage Stonehenge?
Oh shit, was it that easy to fix climate change? To vandalize heritage sites was all it took?
It’s clearly not enough.
Well I’d argue it does nothing. In fact, it probably is counter productive, so instead of nothing it does the opposite
Ah yes, it’s holding back the massive sweeping wave of change currently going on to fix climate change.
No, don’t be a dumbass. It’s raising awareness, because it’s obvious nobody is giving a shit about this really fucking massive problem that is directly on our doorstep. Painting Stonehenge isn’t going to accomplish anything except be a nuisance, but being a nuisance is how you compel people to get shit done non-violently. MLK and his sit-ins pushed civil rights forward by being a nuisance. Gandhi pushed Britain out of India by being a nuisance. If you accept the status quo, the status quo will remain. You have to get out and make noise and attract a following if you want the folks in charge to pay attention to your existence.
Trust me, you want them painting on Stonehenge for attention. This is the non-violent option. When this is ignored long enough, the non-violent option will be shelved and that’s when people will suddenly start paying attention.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” - John F. Kennedy, 1962
You would accomplish much more by voting and getting two people under 30 years old to do the same.
Also I missed the part of the civil rights movement where they blocked ambulances and threw paint on stone hedge.
Demolising heritage is what IS did in the levant…
They’d better paint the Chinese Wall since that country can change alot more than the west.
Just murk an oil exec or two. I care far more about not risking damaging cultural atifacts than some random I dont know.
That is what I was hoping to hear.
And I still say doing a stunt that even makes it look like you’ve done some real damage to Stonehenge right in the middle of a religious festival does not make you look like the good guys. People in another thread said it spread awareness. Who isn’t aware? I’m fully aware of climate change and there’s fuck all I can do about it.
But at least it was not permanent vandalism.
Not only did they decide to do it in the middle of a religious festival, they did it in the middle of a festival that’s part of a religion that worships nature.
- Who isn’t aware?
Like half of the world is in denial.
How would you spread awareness that translates to action?
Denial is not lack of awareness.
I don’t know exactly how I would spread awareness, but I know exactly how I wouldn’t: Making people think I damaged a beloved ancient monument during a religious festival… a religious festival, as someone else pointed out, for people who venerate nature.
How about, as an idea, paint bombing Shell Oil headquarters?
They tried that in 2022. It got fuck all news coverage. The fact you don’t know is exactly why they jumped it up to things that would get them in the news.
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Cool. When are you going to get on that? Or are you expecting others to kill on your behalf?
Like everyone else, I’ll follow you. I’m not a leader, I just sit here and complain. Like everyone else.
So you asked me for a solution, came up with a different solution, and now you expect me to implement the one that you came up with?
Because that is not a rational train of thought. I hope you realize that.
No. I was coming up with my own solution, because yours is like tickling Goliath with a feather. I was not expecting you to do anything.
That’s how a back and forth conversation works. I hope you realize that.
Clearly, a good portion of the population isn’t aware of how serious the situation is, it’s still an election issue.
If the right level of awareness was reached, having any kind of oil money around you would be a political death sentence. Instead, Trump has public bribe meetings with oil execs and his base grows because of it.
Ok, now please explain, since no one else will, why pissing people off is a good way to achieve that.
Have you ever convinced anyone of something by pissing them off?
They said the same about woman and gay rights movements. You can’t make noise, block traffic or even talk about it without pissing people off.
Not to mention most of the anger is manufactured by oil execs and then enabled by people with little to no proper reasoning skills.
That’s a little different from disrespecting a religious festival, isn’t it?
Pivoting into religious rights about the summer solstice celebration. That’s a stretch if I’ve ever seen one. I don’t see why religious monuments should be exempt from harmless protests but I really doubt you would have called stone hedge one yesterday if it wasn’t for it suiting your argument today.
Is that your stance. You are pissed because you think the religious rights of the revelers got trampled on?
First of all, I didn’t say anything about rights. This is about respecting people. People who are on their side.
Secondly, it was a religious celebration, as it is for British Wiccans and other people of similar faiths every year.
Maybe you don’t consider them religions or something, but they are.
MLK advanced civil rights by being a nuisance. Gandhi pushed Britain out of India by being a nuisance. I’m sure there are others.
It is in the nature of protest to be disruptive. It has to be. If it isn’t, it gets ignored. Climate change is getting ignored. What would you rather they do, go deface an oil refinery? That’ll just get them arrested and the news suppressed. Big public displays that can’t be hushed are the only way to make sure your message reaches the world. These folks have been considerate enough to make sure that message didn’t permanently damage its canvas. I don’t know what more you could ask from them.
I said I was glad it wasn’t damaged. I don’t know what more you could ask from me.
I don’t know… oil companies piss off lots of people when they cause oil spills…and yet they’re rolling in profits day in and day out.
Maybe these protesters are trying imitate how oil companies behave since its works so well for them?
Damage the environment and make money if your an oil CEO. Temporarily color stone henge with zero damage and everyone loses their minds. Kinda backwards if you ask me.
It works for them because they have trillions of dollars at their disposal. The activists do not.
But you asked how pissing people off has ever convinced anyone of anything. Oil companies successfully do it all the time. Or any muilti billion dollar industry really.
I’m fully aware that money is the difference, and that’s exactly why we shouldn’t be shitting on the protesters.
We should be asking ourselves why it makes us so angry when protesters cause “damage” but dont have the same reaction to oil companies causing way more damage for profit. Human psychology is interesting.
I’m not seeing oil companies convincing lots of people that they’re benevolent when they do bad things. Especially not after an oil spill. So your claim that that’s what they’re doing doesn’t make much sense to me.
They convince people we need their product despite the damage they cause. They still get investors and convince them their company is profitable. They spend billions of dollars lobbying against alternative energy sources like solar, nuclear, and wind… convincing people they aren’t as viable as oil…when some already are and others could be with more R&D. They convince governments to allow for more oil drilling sites, despite the environmental risks.
They do A LOT convincing all the time.
Why are you more angry about a stunt that did no damage than you are about actual ecological damage done by oil companies for profit?
How do you know what I’m more angry about?
By what you’re crowing about.
I’m “crowing” about the subject of the article. Otherwise known as being on-topic.
Truth that people do not want to hear… sad.
The message is that people care more about non-damaging vandalism to famous objects than they do about climate change which will cause irreparable damage to many of these same objects, be it through hazardous weather, rising seas, or global conflict.
The message seems to be that I care more about it, which is just a lie people are accusing me of.
Not necessarily you or really any one person in general, but as a whole.
You might tell that to all the people who are acting like I don’t give a shit about climate change rather than just questioning some activists’ methods.
Industrial sabotage is whats needed at this point imo.
If you’d been paying attention, you’d know it wasn’t permanent from the get go.
I was paying attention. That doesn’t mean I don’t wait for experts to say that it really isn’t permanent.
Unless you are assuming the environmental protesters were geologists and familiar with whether or not things like getting into cracks would make a difference at Stonehenge. I don’t see a reason to make such an assumption.
They said it was orange corn flour all along, and they have a history of not actually damaging anything but using the appearance of “damage” to make a point. Corn flour is a very simple, inert substance. You’re actually demonstrating the hypocrisy that this group is trying to highlight - more concern over something like corn flour damaging these rocks than the damage done by millions of barrels of crude oil extracted every day. Where’s your outrage over acid/micro plastic in rain that falls on these stone every week? There will be new species of moss that grow on these rocks, or pollen that blows on them from invasive species, possibly damaging them as the climate heats up - are you worried about that? Why can folks summon outrage over something inert that touched a famous rock, but not for destruction of the actual biosphere? If Stonehenge is that fragile, why are people allowed anywhere near it? You’re more than welcome to disagree with them, but if you spend more energy complaining about Just Stop Oil than you do complaining about actual oil companies, you’re actually just supporting the oil companies.
Am I not allowed to be concerned about both climate change and an important ancient monument? Are you not able to be concerned about more than one thing at a time?
Butter corn syrup!
and there’s fuck all I can do about it.
Sounds like maybe you are lacking some awareness around this issue.
Okay, you tell me exactly what I’m supposed to do.
Do you have money or time to put towards it?
Lots of things but the easiest would be to find local orgs that have already developed political strategies relevant to your local political context and work with them. They can fill you in on the rest.
Climate change won’t be addressed until there is a much larger movement that can flex serious political power. Think civil rights movement—that’s the kind of organizing we need.
Okay, now what can I do when I’m so sick that I have to rest for hours after walking the dogs for 30 minutes?
Doing nothing would be a start since apparently, you are using that time to disparage the efforts of others.
You don’t have to help, even though you have more than enough time from what you are saying. I know, it’s not your fault, bla blah, you’re a victim. You could just like not have a shitty attitude, that’s all.
You’re right, I will disparage people who think that the way to help is to piss people off.
The main ones being pissed off is the oil industry and that’s who you are actually helping.
There is much work to be done and not all of it is physical. I don’t know the specifics of your condition but you are here posting on social media. At minimum, there is likely a need for similar work to be done in support of your local orgs.
Again, if you find some local folks doing such work, I am sure they would help you find your niche.
So you’re saying don’t look like you’re vandalizing an ancient monument during a religious festival held by nature worshipers? I agree and that was my point.
I am somewhat undecided about this action. It gets people talking (as we’re doing now) but it may also risk turning people away from the cause, especially those who are only casually interested or aware of the facts or issues.
But my point was your suggestion that everyone is already aware of climate change is absurd. Especially the follow up that no one can do anything about it. Sure, they’ve heard of it, but everyone is continuing to behave as if it doesn’t exist. There needs to be much greater awareness, discussion, and then action on this topic, and until such time we will need to do disruptive things to get people’s attention. I do prefer to disrupt the people most responsible, personally.
They answered what you can do and you completely ignored it.
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The username though, hahaha
Maybe do some labor and figure it out yourself instead of trying to pawn that off on everybody else???
As I said to someone else, the amount of labor I can do right now is about 30 minutes of walking every few hours.
But I’m not sure why I have to do anything to point out that pissing people off is not likely to get people on your side.
Not that kind of labor 🤦
What kind of labor then?
You’re making me explain that there are more kinds of labor than just physical, which is asking me to perform mental and emotional labor just to educate your ignorant ass. You know search engines are a thing right? The Internet, you may have heard of it? It can be used to find information. Asking others to do this for you is imparting labor upon some random and you have been doing it all over this thread. I’m assuming in an effort to play dumb and/or exhaust anyone who thinks differently than you. You may not even realize that’s what you’re doing, but it is.
That’s funny I would have knocked that shit down with a bulldozer
I pissed on all them rocks, y’all gon stop flying private jets now? Don’t make me get some Taco Bell and come back. These people crack me up, like I give two fucks if they destroy historical artifacts and it’s actually going to change my mind about anything.
They sprayed cornstarch on them, both piss and Taco Bell would be far worse. It is just about getting attention to people actually destroying the world, while not destroying anything. It would be cheaper and much easier to buy spray paint than to right cornstarch into a sprayable device… But that would cause damage, which they didn’t want.
But that would cause damage, which they didn’t want.
They blocked ambulances
They blocked ambulances to what? The stones? Feel like I just went /whoosh
Another incident but same group. Maybe instead of going “whoosh” to yourself you can read up on the issue
… So different people, different area and I am supposed to know what incident you are talking about, got it. Care to point to the incident or should we just throw everyone in jail that supports a group that did something wrong? Seems like that would violate a lot of human rights. But if you want to start with a group, let’s start with MAGA, they have promoted how many unconstitutional proposals and acts that went through before federal judges having to turn them down. Throw in the attacks on people… They’d be screwed. Every one of them is guilty of stealing personal information from hospitals, yikes.
The issue here was cornstarch on rocks. You are talking about things further than clouds in the sky
No same people same organization same country. Yes I do expect you to do the slightest amount of research on a group’s character before you start charging in and providing free apologetics for them.
Seems like that would violate a lot of human rights.
I salute your nobel victory over the Strawmen army.
But if you want to start with a group, let’s start with MAGA
Misdirection.
The issue here was cornstarch on rocks. You are talking about things further than clouds in the sky
They blocked ambulances.
So can you show me where these two people blocked ambulances or is your strawmen still feeding your calling out strawmen?
Yes the misdirection calling out your misdirection was indeed misdirection.
“They blocked ambulances”. Evidence these people blocked ambulances or you are guilty of everything you are defending with. It better be these 2 people as well… Or you are slandering those people. : )
Edit: Oh and for the record, I looked it up. It was about 30x farther than the clouds, and not them.
Everyone knows, it’s not a secret. And guess what, nothing changed. I’m going to start putting peace symbols on everything I see and hope it brings awareness to how bad war is 🤣🤣🤣
No, you’ll just jerk off for the third time today and continue to post about how stupid everyone (but you) is
*fifth time You underestimate me once again young Padawan
This group’s activism is so tone-deaf that I’m starting to think this is actually the oil companies pretending to be terrible activists.
No matter what the form of protest, you will think it’s tone-deaf because you have been trained to. The oil industry spends a lot of money spamming comments like yours because they know eventually, fools will start parroting it for them.
What’s your reasoning? Do you think it’s ineffective even though it’s made world wide news. Is non destructive play vandalism of old rocks somehow too extreme of a response for the clear destruction of our environment?
It’s hard not to be part of the problem, since over consumption habits are difficulty to get rid of when no else is. I won’t fault you for that. Protests aren’t everyone’s thing, whatever.
At the minimum though, you could just not be a mouthpiece for the ones who are causing said problem. Seriously, like if you’ve ever given a shit about stone hedge before.
No matter what the form of protest, you will think it’s tone-deaf because you have been trained to.
MMmmmmmmmmm No. It’s actually tone-deaf. And assholish. And idiotic. And stupid. And I hate them Sam I Am.
Seriously, they are more damaging to actual protest movements than Big Oil. I’m seconding the astroturfing theory. Their methods are not just ridiculous, they’re offensive on multiple levels, and here’s the part where I disagree with my younger more smartical friends: IT DOES NOT HELP IN ANY WAY. “Oh but it gets the message out there!” And what message would that be? If the message is “stupid idiots deface art or humanity for shiggles” then sure, I’d agree. Otherwise it’s just more headwinds to fight against, a self-own for - well, we don’t really know why other than they think it’s great to be filming themselves.
The message is “we are heading towards complete climate collapse and The Powers That Be are acting like things are fine”.
The message is that people care more about non-damaging vandalism to famous objects than they do about climate change which will cause irreparable damage to many of these same objects, be it through hazardous weather, rising seas, or global conflict.
Not exactly a great message in terms of optics. Usually a bad idea to insult your audience
Well the message is wrong. People care about both. These clods think vandalizing museums is some kind of magical incantation to energize the anti-big-oil . . . what, legislation? Consumer habits?
How did they come to such a conclusion anyway?
Bold move to say “I’m starting to think” then parrot the most repeated comment on the subject
I get the epic of marking climate change as a general human issue by doing stonehenge. Doing, let’s say, the wall street bulls statue or smth in London marking climate change as a capital issue would have been smarter thou
NO you hate protest you’re a shill for the man why don’t you just drink a big barrel of Big Oil you terrible person you
Edit just to be on the safe side: /s
