What he could’ve made if there were no taxes? I doubt he’d be making as much if there were no government.
Should be more mad of what isn’t being done with all the taxes being taken out.
He’d be really upset if he knew what is being done with his taxes.
Argentina gutted its tax system and now certain people are making a lot more money. Its just that the state currency is increasingly worthless, as the biggest consumer of notes no longer wants them.
Those certain people probably wouldn’t include this guy. Nothing against him, he’d just be playing an odds game and the odds would not be in his favor.
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That’s an extremely simplistic view of commerce and human history. Robbery was very common before government. Robbery is still very common, but less so.
Fraud and dangerous products run rampant without government intervention. Basically, without a government to protect you, the likelihood that a mega corp will sell you something that will kill you is super high. Just look at how much regulation has improved auto safety in the last 70 years. And appliance safety, medical safety, travel safety, food safety, etc.
The kind of world that libertarians pine for is the kind of world that would kill them in a month.
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I was responding to this:
In the prehistoric world, a person with something to sell or trade could mostly do so without interference, because everyone had similar physical power, making robbery more dangerous than it was worth.
And this:
Free markets mean people can enter the market and do whatever kind of business they please so long as someone else is willing to take that deal.
Anyone who hates the concept of taxes should be barred from voting. Clearly, you’re too stupid to be allowed to participate.
I don’t hate the concept of taxes. I hate the concept of my taxes not actually going back into the community I live in and instead being used to line pockets and blow up middle eastern people.
That’s fair, as long as you realize that some of it DOES actually go back to your community.
Then let’s only pay the portion that does go to the community or necessary public services
Well you can’t just support your community. There’s a whole nation of communities. And you’ll need some sort of military to prevent others from coming and exploiting you.
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I’ll take that deal, but only if I’m also relieved from paying taxes.
You can be relieved of taxes as long as you’re barred from using anything paid for with taxes. No FDA regulations for you!
[starts manufacturing affordable insulin]
[starts to stretch insulin with paint thinner]
every day it seems like people forget what things like the FDA are for, but hey, the snake oil salesmen love this state of affairs
If I need testing for someone else’s insulin, I can get that for cheaper than the regulatory capture insulin. They don’t work for us.
ah yes, use the totally legit bio-med test service down the road, due to the FTC not being a thing they can totally and without any repercussions just lie to you because they have a deal with the person selling you the insulin.
Then again, you have been hoodwinked into some “regulatory capture” bullshit, in reality, insulin is so expensive in the USA because no one has the capital wants to sell it cheap, it’s a risk for minimal rewards, the demand is literally your life, so the cost can be as high as anyone wants it.
as for the whole “but the free market” and “supply/demand”, do you think the people setting these prices don’t know what the prisoner’s dilemma is?
There is just so much going on here.
Are we discussing a situation in which only the FDA is gone, or complete anarchy?
Do you believe that regulatory capture is bullshit?
People knowing about a prisoner’s dilemma doesn’t make it go away.
Many more tax dollars are poured into the military industrial complex than actual regulation.
Works for me! As long as Amazon will still deliver to my address, you can find me homesteading at my Uncle Ted cabin sending virtual mailbombs to fiat currency enthusiasts. Don’t come visit without an appointment though or you’ll be leaving in a box.
They won’t, those roads are maintained by taxes and the internet infrastructure is subsidized.
There goes my dream of being self sufficient. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
I hope you’re happy.
The FBI has more guns than you lol
I didn’t do anything wrong though. No vote, no taxes, no use of publicly funded infrastructure, that was the deal. Amazon is a private company, they do pay taxes, so they can use the roads on my behalf.
Are you an anarchist?
Well, I’m certainly not a fan of big government if that’s what you mean.
That’s the fun thing though, taxes pay for the legal system that protects you from both the state and other people. So you don’t get that either. Anyone including the FBI can roll up and smoke your ass and there’s nothing you can do about it.
And I dunno what a virtual mailbomb is, but it sounds like something the FBI would care enough to stop.
And I dunno what a virtual mailbomb is, but it sounds like something the FBI would care enough to stop.
It’s just a funny word I made up for inconvenient free speech. Because it is my experience that right (or wrong, depending on your perspective) words at the right time can literally make a person blow up LOL
Taxation is only necessary in a country with a heavily privatized and widely stratified property distribution. The whole purpose of the tax system is to redistribute money between groups, by way of state spending. But if you don’t have these enormous strata to begin with, you don’t need crazy high tax rates to handle the rebalancing.
Cuba and Laos has a very modest 20% top tax rate. Vietnam has the same top rate as the US, at 35%. North Korea doesn’t have any income tax at all. It’s countries like China and Japan and Germany (top rate 45% with a 20% cap gains rate) and the US (top rate 37% with a 15% cap gains rate) that need these higher brackets, because they’ve got these bloated upper classes.
I could easily argue that taxation is just another kind of rent, and states are just another kind of landlord, in a country where the working class has no legal claim to any of the property it occupies. And that an ideal society would have many more free-at-point-of-service public utilities, such that cash (and the taxing thereof) had a diminished purpose.
In a country where you’re compelled to chase a wage in order to have any kind of legal right to exist, the taxation of working-class wages really is awful and nobody should be punished for saying so. I’m all on board with eliminating taxation for anyone earning below the living wage. And I might go further, arguing for the abolition of private taxpaying businesses that depriving people of survival necessities.
That includes you.
Perfect example of what people mean when they talk about liberals versus progressives.
You’d hardly be the first guy who thinks only landlords deserve a vote.
How would he react if he saw how much the shareholders and CEO make?
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So we need to articulate how the global benefits of those billionaires’ tax money being pooled and spent on commonwealth, is better even for the billionaires than if they’d each individually kept that money.
If they pay their taxes we don’t feed them to pigs. How’s that for a benefit?
That’s plan B, we can’t lead with that. But believe me, it is on the table.
Okay, here’s my suggestion for plan A: We feed them to pigs and take it all. Regardless of the tax situation.
I think it is a net positive like you say, but also some people really think they know better, and also don’t like their impact of politics being reduced to that of their fellows.
Can you imagine what it’s like to actually be able to influence policy workout having to vote, or even to take part in collective action with other people?
It can’t be good for the soul, but it’s got to be habit forming.
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I can’t remember who suggested it, but they framed the question differently around taxing billionaires.
Instead of making it a negative thing, they said it should be framed as a great honour to pay these “special” taxes. The billionaire tax should be kept separately from all other taxes, it should be pooled into a limited fund that they own, and should be distributed to areas where they want it to make a real impact. They should then be given additional benefits in society based on the impact generated by their fund. It notes that capitalism isn’t necessarily about accumulation of wealth, but profit, and that wealth should be taxed.
For example, if Elon Musk were taxed 50% as a wealth tax, he is personally invited to the White House to discuss his plans with the tax authorities and the president. He gets to attend specific meetings to see where his money has gone (let’s say to hospitals), and gets public praise for pumping several billion into public healthcare initiatives. Wealth is reframed into an opportunity to help society, whereas capitalism pushes profit.
While I don’t really like the idea of billionaires choosing where taxes go, if improvements are measured on societal impact it’s still better than before where they just hoard wealth.
I think that billionaires gain their wealth by gaming the system, and it seems foolish to expect them to not continue to game any new system that they’re a part of. Especially given the degree of control you’re suggesting.
Idk, maybe it could work. Seems like there’s a lot that hinges on billionaires doing the right thing, and I’m skeptical that they would.
In many ways, it is an obscene amount of control, and I don’t disagree that this degree of wealth isn’t ethical - even examples like Taylor Swift aren’t from “hard work”, but rather backroom deals, undercutting other artists, etc.
IMO, the best alternative is going entirely the other way. Tell all billionaires in the US that they are subject to a wealth tax, and attempts to fight it will result in freezing assets, expulsion from the country, executive removal, etc. Drive all billionaires out of the country, and let them set up shop elsewhere (they won’t).
It’s a punishment, though. Perhaps they should be punished, but IMO an easier approach is to say “well done” and to tell them that as long as this money goes somewhere for societal gain it doesn’t really matter if they decide to pump tens of billions into making public roads the best roads in the country, it’s better than them just having that money in a fund somewhere.
Where this will likely get dicey is in ensuring that this money stays in home accounts, and in defining what is taxable wealth, and fighting avoidance. That’s where the system will be gamed, but ultimately it’s different to avoid tax that goes somewhere to avoiding your money being spent by you for public good.
Thing is, this already happens, it’s just currently more in the billionaire’s favor because instead of tax it’s a “donation”. You’re proposing the same system that already exists with lobbyists and Super PACs, just more enforced. No one is going to bite that bait when they can just pay Scheister and Swindel, Attorneys at Law, to cut a private deal with the CEOs and senators of their choice, be completely unbeholden to public opinion about it, and not be required to do it again next tax season if it’s not profitable to do so.
Besides, I’ve had quite enough of rich assholes deciding that this year they’re going to donate $80m to exterminate the gays / to shut down solar startups / to arm all the cops with rocket launchers. In every situation, given the choice, they will always invest their money into whatever is most immediately profitable to them, morals or longevity be damned. This would cause our already easily-purchased politicians to be even more easily purchased and with semi public approval, as Elongated Muskrat now has a legal right to billionaire hero-worship? No thanks.
The special billionaire tax isn’t an awful idea. The perks attached to it are most definitely an awful, no good, very bad idea. If something like this did get implemented it would be an absolute requirement that the investor have no say in where these taxes are spent. They may advise in certain directions, but final say should be up to a jury of some sort.
Instead of the $1 menu (wait does that still exist?) they get to choose from the billionaire menu except it’s required…as long as they can’t lobby for the billionaire menu items which is a dream too. It would have to be programs that actually show they help people in easing financial needs of course.
This seems like royalty with extra steps
Hmmm, this might be what I need to remember which is net and which is gross!
Net is what you catch in the net, and the rest falls away.
Corruption. Mind the corruption too. A lot of tax dollars are for that.
