Just an unbroken line of black eyes and unwanted pregnancies going back to the beginning of time, huh
Dude. If you want conservatives to steer clear from making wild accusations about what goes on in queer communities and why their whole lifestyle is unhealthy and awful 100% of the time, so they don’t need any further evidence other than just participating in the lifestyle to accuse everyone of taking part in some kind of horror even if they are just innocent people trying to live their life without being shamed for it, you need to extend the same courtesy.
I feel like we’re going in circles. That’s my take on it though.
You’re misunderstanding what exactly they were referring to, the modern trad wife movement, which is literally about giving up your rights to a man. You literally said in your next comment that you didn’t even read what they said. Why are you acting like you know what you’re talking about if you didn’t even read it?
I also really think you need to check yourself on the “it’s your fault conservatives make wild accusations about queer people” bit there. Just really not okay to try and lay blame at their feet for that. Like do you have any idea how exploitative that is? “You’re contributing to the transphobic hate movement unless you change your opinion” is basically what you’re saying. Which is a really fucked up thing to say to a trans person. Our oppression is NOT our fault.
You’re misunderstanding what exactly they were referring to, the modern trad wife movement
Yeah this is a fair point - way back up in my original comment I covered a couple different ways in which the internet “tradwife” thing is fucked, but I didn’t also say that it is explicitly approving of some of the most toxic and misogynistic parts of “conservative” society whether modern or old-school. The whole thing is a core of authoritarianism wrapped in a thin veneer of “traditional gender roles”. I can see I kind of left the door open for misinterpretation because I spoke up about the second without really distinguishing it from the first, when conflating the two is the whole “tradwife influencer” shtick and that’s relevant here. It is fair.
I also really think you need to check yourself on the “it’s your fault conservatives make wild accusations about queer people” bit there.
Also not what I meant, although I could see how it could have sounded that way.
What I meant is, if someone’s applying a whole toxic stereotype to 100% of people who pursue a lifestyle they don’t vibe with, that’s wrong, regardless of who’s on which side of it. Not that prejudice against traditional gender roles has any kind of causal relationship with prejudice against non traditional gender roles.
Just an unbroken line of black eyes and unwanted pregnancies going back to the beginning of time, huh
Well, no, the so-called “”“traditional”“” gender roles that tradwives are play-acting aren’t universal. They’re relatively modern, actually! If they really wanted to get old school, their families would be matrilineal and they’d live in huge extended families.
Well, I made a novel point, and I accounted for the possibility of husbands who were good people and who didn’t beat their wives. And then you promptly ignored me and made the same point again while pretending I made a different point than the one I made. If you don’t want a circle, don’t do one. I told you, history isn’t all black eyes. You seem to have just completely pretended I didn’t say that.
I’m gonna be honest, I read “Traditional gender roles are abusive 100% of the time,” and didn’t bother to read anything else. Maybe that makes me the bad faith guy, but I feel like once I’ve taken one bite of the dinner and it tasted that obviously wrong, I don’t need to just keep eating and hope it gets better.
I just went back and skimmed your whole comment. Okay, so you’re talking about the abusive legal structures that often went alongside consenting traditional roles. Yes, those are fucked, as I already said. If you are against those, I am with you on that, and I am aware that people sometimes call those “traditional” as a way of excusing them. As I already said, that’s not what I am doing and not what I am talking about.
We’re saying, I think, more or less the same thing, as far as what parts are okay and what parts are not. Although you’re still framing it in a way that seems like it’s making this blanket statement about the other grouping that would never be okay directed at a queer or otherwise “friendly” grouping.
I see your points through the semantic fog. You had it at a problem of definitions and it doesn’t appear to have gone away. One side defending personal intent and the other highlighting historic institutional malaise. Very little actually discussing, you both just happened to be making adjacent points in the same topic for the most part.
They’re right in their analysis of the mores and norms that the system allows, even if their claim of no good people existing under a broken system is absurd.
You ain’t in bad faith, it’s more exhausting to get pinged by friendly IFF misreadings than extreme ideological opposites nowadays. That whole leftists eating leftists series of jokes applies somewhat.
Yeah dude. Everyone’s just looking for an enemy to dunk on. It’s like “Aha! I got one!” and they get all excited to debunk some kind of imaginary shit that no one involved in the conversation is saying.
Tbh your comments are all leading with pretty incindiary lines and just casting “dude” onto whoever is pretty fucking annoying, regardless of how much one might argue “it’s gender neutral”
And I’m squarely against dunk culture, these are just some friendly requests 🙂
Yeah, you’re not wrong. I tend to use “dude” and “man” and the like and it’s probably not a good idea even when we’re not talking about gender and misogyny specifically.
100% of the time, huh
Just an unbroken line of black eyes and unwanted pregnancies going back to the beginning of time, huh
Dude. If you want conservatives to steer clear from making wild accusations about what goes on in queer communities and why their whole lifestyle is unhealthy and awful 100% of the time, so they don’t need any further evidence other than just participating in the lifestyle to accuse everyone of taking part in some kind of horror even if they are just innocent people trying to live their life without being shamed for it, you need to extend the same courtesy.
I feel like we’re going in circles. That’s my take on it though.
You’re misunderstanding what exactly they were referring to, the modern trad wife movement, which is literally about giving up your rights to a man. You literally said in your next comment that you didn’t even read what they said. Why are you acting like you know what you’re talking about if you didn’t even read it?
I also really think you need to check yourself on the “it’s your fault conservatives make wild accusations about queer people” bit there. Just really not okay to try and lay blame at their feet for that. Like do you have any idea how exploitative that is? “You’re contributing to the transphobic hate movement unless you change your opinion” is basically what you’re saying. Which is a really fucked up thing to say to a trans person. Our oppression is NOT our fault.
Yeah this is a fair point - way back up in my original comment I covered a couple different ways in which the internet “tradwife” thing is fucked, but I didn’t also say that it is explicitly approving of some of the most toxic and misogynistic parts of “conservative” society whether modern or old-school. The whole thing is a core of authoritarianism wrapped in a thin veneer of “traditional gender roles”. I can see I kind of left the door open for misinterpretation because I spoke up about the second without really distinguishing it from the first, when conflating the two is the whole “tradwife influencer” shtick and that’s relevant here. It is fair.
Also not what I meant, although I could see how it could have sounded that way.
What I meant is, if someone’s applying a whole toxic stereotype to 100% of people who pursue a lifestyle they don’t vibe with, that’s wrong, regardless of who’s on which side of it. Not that prejudice against traditional gender roles has any kind of causal relationship with prejudice against non traditional gender roles.
Well, no, the so-called “”“traditional”“” gender roles that tradwives are play-acting aren’t universal. They’re relatively modern, actually! If they really wanted to get old school, their families would be matrilineal and they’d live in huge extended families.
Well, I made a novel point, and I accounted for the possibility of husbands who were good people and who didn’t beat their wives. And then you promptly ignored me and made the same point again while pretending I made a different point than the one I made. If you don’t want a circle, don’t do one. I told you, history isn’t all black eyes. You seem to have just completely pretended I didn’t say that.
I’m gonna be honest, I read “Traditional gender roles are abusive 100% of the time,” and didn’t bother to read anything else. Maybe that makes me the bad faith guy, but I feel like once I’ve taken one bite of the dinner and it tasted that obviously wrong, I don’t need to just keep eating and hope it gets better.
I just went back and skimmed your whole comment. Okay, so you’re talking about the abusive legal structures that often went alongside consenting traditional roles. Yes, those are fucked, as I already said. If you are against those, I am with you on that, and I am aware that people sometimes call those “traditional” as a way of excusing them. As I already said, that’s not what I am doing and not what I am talking about.
We’re saying, I think, more or less the same thing, as far as what parts are okay and what parts are not. Although you’re still framing it in a way that seems like it’s making this blanket statement about the other grouping that would never be okay directed at a queer or otherwise “friendly” grouping.
Edit: Made less inflammatory
I see your points through the semantic fog. You had it at a problem of definitions and it doesn’t appear to have gone away. One side defending personal intent and the other highlighting historic institutional malaise. Very little actually discussing, you both just happened to be making adjacent points in the same topic for the most part.
They’re right in their analysis of the mores and norms that the system allows, even if their claim of no good people existing under a broken system is absurd.
You ain’t in bad faith, it’s more exhausting to get pinged by friendly IFF misreadings than extreme ideological opposites nowadays. That whole leftists eating leftists series of jokes applies somewhat.
Yeah dude. Everyone’s just looking for an enemy to dunk on. It’s like “Aha! I got one!” and they get all excited to debunk some kind of imaginary shit that no one involved in the conversation is saying.
Tbh your comments are all leading with pretty incindiary lines and just casting “dude” onto whoever is pretty fucking annoying, regardless of how much one might argue “it’s gender neutral”
And I’m squarely against dunk culture, these are just some friendly requests 🙂
Yeah, you’re not wrong. I tend to use “dude” and “man” and the like and it’s probably not a good idea even when we’re not talking about gender and misogyny specifically.
Ooh I kind of want to read the inflammatory one!
Eh. I was trying to keep it productive. Railcar8095 already made in a nicer way the point that I made in an argumentative way and then deleted.
This summarizes the problem with your argument. You have such biased opinion that this is what you consider giving a concession.
Same energy as “I didn’t say ALL trans groom children”, basically.