This is a bit off topic, but I really dislike terms like toxic masculinity or traditional masculinity.
I prefer talking about it in terms of “prescribed masculinity” which I think is the actual problem here. If you enjoy being a sports bro, who lifts weights, and is really into cars. Awesome! If you enjoy table top games and reading, awesome! Something completely different? Believe it or not, also awesome! As long as you’re not using it as an excuse to be an asshole to someone, men should pursue whatever will make their life the most fulfilling. But as far as defining masculine as some specific traits or interests, fuck that noise.
I’ve seen plenty of people equate toxic masculinity to “traditional masculinity” (for lack of a better term) and make fun of guys that fit that mold or, alternatively, get very defensive as though you were attacking their hobbies.
I agree with your sentiment though. I just think… since toxic masculinity hasn’t been clearly defined and what’s toxic will vary significantly from one person to another… that a much better term is “prescribed masculinity”. It also helps prevent that knee jerk reaction some will have when you bring up the term. (I find most folks will agree that prescribed masculinity is a fucked concept, but may get defensive over the concept of “toxic masculinity”)
Also I’m not a car person but that’s a slick looking car.
I don’t like segregating toxic behavior into perceived gender roles. It’s just toxic behaviors. Which exist across all genders and spectrum.
I watched my grandmother’s mental state decline into pretty bad dementia before she died. Sat on her bed next to her now than a few times because she couldn’t figure something out. “Your brain is being an asshole gran”
But sometimes it wasn’t the dementia that made her an asshole, it was being both in 1934 and moving through a world war having to raise her younger brothers at an early age have her peculiar views in the world and never believed the world moved on.
So she treated some people very poorly by today’s standards. She believed people but also institutions didnt listen to women. And ya know what? She lived in a time when she literally had to get her husbands approval on many things we would find just as if not more than the current situations women still face on somethings.
Forget all about how her husband spent little time at home, and even when he was home from working trades out of town, he spent most of his time on his hobbies, not the home unless gran had to get him to do something, but she can manage all the admistration of household without him most of the year, but she needed to get his permission for other people, not because he needed her to get his permission to handle the finances. But that was just an annoying part of dealing with the bank, to them it was an inconvenience that they had to put up with, not much more inconvenient as bank holidays when you needed to go to a bank, which you had to go often in the days before debit cards
That was the environment that she formed significant preceptions about the world.
I got a bit off track, toxic behaviour is what we should be framing this problem as, its all part of the same problem, with the same bad behaviours expressed differently reliant on your gender expression.
Though i might be able to be convinced to think of it as toxic worldviews, as a worldview is already multifaceted and ones toxic behaviours are quite often caused by what worldviews you choose to express
This is a bit off topic, but I really dislike terms like toxic masculinity or traditional masculinity.
I prefer talking about it in terms of “prescribed masculinity” which I think is the actual problem here. If you enjoy being a sports bro, who lifts weights, and is really into cars. Awesome! If you enjoy table top games and reading, awesome! Something completely different? Believe it or not, also awesome! As long as you’re not using it as an excuse to be an asshole to someone, men should pursue whatever will make their life the most fulfilling. But as far as defining masculine as some specific traits or interests, fuck that noise.
I’m pretty sure toxic masculinity only applies to the toxic parts, right? Surely no one thinks getting excited about the Nissan Z is toxic?
I’ve seen plenty of people equate toxic masculinity to “traditional masculinity” (for lack of a better term) and make fun of guys that fit that mold or, alternatively, get very defensive as though you were attacking their hobbies.
I agree with your sentiment though. I just think… since toxic masculinity hasn’t been clearly defined and what’s toxic will vary significantly from one person to another… that a much better term is “prescribed masculinity”. It also helps prevent that knee jerk reaction some will have when you bring up the term. (I find most folks will agree that prescribed masculinity is a fucked concept, but may get defensive over the concept of “toxic masculinity”)
Also I’m not a car person but that’s a slick looking car.
You are correct. Only loving the Honda Odyssey is toxic.
I don’t like segregating toxic behavior into perceived gender roles. It’s just toxic behaviors. Which exist across all genders and spectrum.
I watched my grandmother’s mental state decline into pretty bad dementia before she died. Sat on her bed next to her now than a few times because she couldn’t figure something out. “Your brain is being an asshole gran”
But sometimes it wasn’t the dementia that made her an asshole, it was being both in 1934 and moving through a world war having to raise her younger brothers at an early age have her peculiar views in the world and never believed the world moved on.
So she treated some people very poorly by today’s standards. She believed people but also institutions didnt listen to women. And ya know what? She lived in a time when she literally had to get her husbands approval on many things we would find just as if not more than the current situations women still face on somethings. Forget all about how her husband spent little time at home, and even when he was home from working trades out of town, he spent most of his time on his hobbies, not the home unless gran had to get him to do something, but she can manage all the admistration of household without him most of the year, but she needed to get his permission for other people, not because he needed her to get his permission to handle the finances. But that was just an annoying part of dealing with the bank, to them it was an inconvenience that they had to put up with, not much more inconvenient as bank holidays when you needed to go to a bank, which you had to go often in the days before debit cards
That was the environment that she formed significant preceptions about the world.
I got a bit off track, toxic behaviour is what we should be framing this problem as, its all part of the same problem, with the same bad behaviours expressed differently reliant on your gender expression.
Though i might be able to be convinced to think of it as toxic worldviews, as a worldview is already multifaceted and ones toxic behaviours are quite often caused by what worldviews you choose to express