I’m a biochemist and I think the periodic table is easy to memorize. “Hydrogen, blah blah blah, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen” and that’s it. Wait, hold on, sodium and chlorine are also on there somewhere…
Phosphorus, sulfur, …?
I don’t like to talk about cysteine.
Accurate username 🤣
My undergrad biochemistry course was taught team taught by a microbiologist and a molecular biologist because the biochemist got fired for sexually harassing a few students.
The molecular biologist was a cool guy and taught concepts. I got an easy A in that section.
The next few weeks were taught by the microbiologist. That asshole wanted us to memorize a ton of different pathways on our second midterm (cyclic acid, fermentations, photosynthetic, MAPK etc…). Something like 20 total. I took an F on that one.
Luckily the final was a standardize test that all universities in the state used that year. So I ended up with a B.
I don’t understand the “memorize the pathways” style of teaching.
I’m not one of those people who says “Why memorize anything when you can look it up?” That doesn’t generally work because (1) you need to know that a fact exists at all before you can look it up, (2) a lot of problem-solving is done by your subconscious, which of course can’t look up anything, and (3) often you can’t see the big picture until you have learned enough of the pieces, even though learning the pieces seems like arbitrary memorization while you still don’t know enough of them.
However, I still don’t see any point in memorizing lists of arbitrary alphanumerical protein names. Knowing the pathway’s purpose, inputs and outputs, and any key intermediates is sufficient. I can’t think of any scenario where a pathway isn’t the focus of your research but being able to recall the names of all the enzymes and the order in which they act (as opposed to looking them up) is useful in practice.
(But maybe I’m the one who is ignorant of the practical applications of that knowledge… All I can say is that there has been no need for it during the course of my career so far.)
In astrophysics it’s even easier.
Hydrogen, other.
God must really love hydrogen.
Do you guys have to memorize fluorine too?
It’s been a decade since I took chemistry, and I did not get very good marks in it, but it seems like the elements at the bottom of the table (with exception to Uranium and Plutonium) are just hanging out while the top elements do all the work.
Fluorine is extremely rare in biological systems. (I was going to say “never” but I looked it up and apparently there are a couple of exotic compounds that have it.) However, fluorine is a component of many man-made drugs and poisons. Halogens are generally not incorporated directly into bio-molecules (with exceptions, the chief one being iodine in thyroid hormones) but chlorine plays an essential role in all living things as a free, negatively charged ion.
Some heavier, metallic elements in the form of ions are necessary for the function of many enzymes, but biological systems can’t work with chemically bound metals the way that human technology can. I looked up what the heaviest element with a biological role is and the answer is apparently tungsten (although I’ve never come across an enzyme incorporating tungsten during the course of my work) but even heavier metals can act as poisons by taking the place of lighter, catalytically active metals in enzymes.
It can be fun to look at the Wikipedia article of some weird element that never seems to be mentioned and see what strange uses humans have actually found for it.
If it’s too big to be created in self sustaining fusion it’s too big to give a shit about.
But… but… muh thulium…
jk all lanthanides are the same don’t @ me physicists
also Ce(IV) catalyst stans
also also total synthesis tryhards who think SmI2 is ever the right call
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We had the periodic table in huge letters on the wall of our chemistry classroom. Wouldbe difficult to not allow students to use it during tests.
One of my nursing school teachers used to say “You don’t have to know everything, you just have to know where to look it up.” I always thought that’s very good and practical advice.
Same.
So during the test the teacher listed element names out loud with no pauses, and you were supposed to write down the symbol while she was speaking, and then another list in reverse. After the last element we had to immediately put the pens down. Whole test took ~45 seconds for 30 elements.
This was so that it was impossible to read from the big table on the wall, you had no time to look away from the paper. You’d miss the next 3 elements by the time you looked away to find the one.
Honestly, that sounds insane. And incompetent.
Whoever made this a requirement did not have in mind to give you a good and useful education.Honestly, that sounds insane.
There is a reason I remember that one test many years later.
“Let’s make it a game show so that everyone loses!”
Not really. As a former math teacher, I used to have kids do speed drill quizzes very similar to that elements chart drill a couple times a week. As in how many basic facts, (addition, subtraction. multiplication and division), with the correct answer can you do in one minute. There are just some basic skills you really need to learn and master before you can move on and learn how to blow things up.
The point of the quiz was not to expect you to get them all correct all the time or even get to the end of the quiz, (I was aiming for 30 correct answers in that one minute out of maybe 60 or 70 problems). But the idea was to build a very basic skill set for you. And so that you wouldn’t be afraid of the numbers, (this is a real stress point for students), and to lessen the fear of learning and adding to your skills by eliminating the stress of where to start. If you confidently know what 7x3 is, that’s one less detail you need to work out and worry over when doing a math problem, (another stress point for students).
Education methods sometimes seem dry and useless and even mean to a young student. But they do actually have thought and reason behind the why a teacher might do something. I could never be bothered to try and teach you something that was pointless. I simply didn’t have the time for that kind of effort. Nor do the vast majority of teachers in a classroom.
But before you can look it up, and I’m all for it, you need to know something is possible. That’s what education does for you.
Thats the “you have to know where to look” part.
I was a chemistry major in college. The tests all came with a periodic table for reference. Didn’t have to memorize a thing. We were even allowed to use calculators! High school was full of lies.
I have nothing against calculators. But I have taught some elementary and jr high school math classes in my old a feeble age. The “why can’t we use calculators” and " what do I need to know this for" was a constant whinge I had to listen to and deal with.
Why I want you to know how to solve a quadratic equation isn’t because that’s what you are going to do for the rest of your life. But rather, I want you to see something like that in the far future and go “Oh, I know what this and that it isn’t gibberish. And I can whip out that smart phone I got and google it to find the howto steps to solve it.” And I want you to acquire the discipline to learn things. Besides, just knowing what 7x3 is, makes everything else so much easier to learn in math. That removes fear and stress point and builds the confidence to tackle more complex ideas.
I probably own more calculators than most here. So, I’m all for them. And I did always allow any student to use a calculator in class. I would just hand you a slide rule…(and yes, I’m that old to have used them in class as a kid and I still own a couple). But, when I was teaching, I really wanted my students get their fingers dirty with the numbers themselves and to learn how those numbers work. While getting the correct answer is very important, as a teacher, I was perhaps less concerned with the correct answer and more concerned with HOW you got that answer. Because if you know what you did to get that answer, you are far more likely to get the right answer than the wrong answer.
In the end, I think education needs to be approached from the idea of making learning more fun. No matter the subject. Sadly, that’s a very difficult trick for any teacher in the typical class room to accomplish.
I think education needs to be approached from the idea of making learning more fun. No matter the subject.
I agree.
On the topic, I suggest reading “Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die” by Chip and Dan Heath to anybody that wants to understand how to convey information (to students, clients, etc.) in a way that can be remembered.
School is supposed to prepare you for solving chemical problems in a tent in the woods with nothing but paper and pencil and meager rations.
Involving civilization, literature and tools is entirely unsuited for the end goal.
Chemistry fans: And obscurium is really cool, because it has three stable isotopes right near each other, but it’s not really useful for anything…
Chemists: why are my results so weird? Oh, right - hydrogen can have a neutron sometimes.
I have nothing against calculators. But I have taught some elementary and jr high school math classes in my old a feeble age. The “why can’t we use calculators” and " what do I need to know this for" was a constant whinge I had to listen to and deal with.
Why I want you to know how to solve a quadratic equation isn’t because that’s what you are going to do for the rest of your life. But rather, I want you to see something like that in the far future and go “Oh, I know what this and that it isn’t gibberish. And I can whip out that smart phone I got and google it to find the howto steps to solve it.” And I want you to acquire the discipline to learn things. Besides, just knowing what 7x3 is, makes everything else so much easier to learn in math. That removes fear and stress point and builds the confidence to tackle more complex ideas.
I probably own more calculators than most here. So, I’m all for them. And I did always allow any student to use a calculator in class. I would just hand you a slide rule…(and yes, I’m that old to have used them in class as a kid and I still own a couple). But, when I was teaching, I really wanted my students get their fingers dirty with the numbers themselves and to learn how those numbers work. While getting the correct answer is very important, as a teacher, I was perhaps less concerned with the correct answer and more concerned with HOW you got that answer. Because if you know what you did to get that answer, you are far more likely to get the right answer than the wrong answer.
In the end, I think education needs to be approached from the idea of making learning more fun. No matter the subject. Sadly, that’s a very difficult trick for any teacher in the typical class room to accomplish.
We had to memorize that entire fucking thing in highschool…
Luckily I had a teacher that thought it was bullshit we had to memorize the whole table and “forgot” to cover the wall-sized poster of the periodic table during the exam
Yeah I’m vaguely remembering something similar. I have these faint whispers of a memory of my teacher forgetting (or probably, “forgetting”) to cover something on the wall during a memorization test.
That’s stupid, who the fuck needs to know about antimony
Anybody named Mony.
No! Absolutely not! Are you trying to kill us all?!
I’m trying, but you’re not making it easy.
Oh, dreadfully sorry. Shall I…just stick my neck out here? Or is this going to be a trampling? Let me know.
Most chem PhDs don’t even know the whole thing lol. We had to memorize just the symbols in high school, but positions weren’t required. In my grad-level inorg course, the first test was a blank table that we had to fill in, but even then the f-block and transactinides were not required.
It worked so well I managed to retain that knowledge for almost a full week after we were tested on it lol it’s all gone now
I’m so glad Swedish schools have mostly ditched memorization (maybe too much sometimes though)
Have you read that article about a fucking professor that couldn’t solve their kids homework? We’ve gone too far in the other direction, haha
Edit2: Found it!😃😃😃😃
That’s normal. Kids will regular school adults on dinosaur details they’re learning in school.
Teachers in the 90s: you won’t always have a calculator.
Me now: you were saying Ms. Knowitall?
But, consider you’re stranded in the wild. All technology lost due to an accident. It’s just you, nature and your skills. How will you know then for how many days the melons you’ve foraged will suffice if you’ve found N of them and eat one a day? /j
I eat all the melons immediately
That was a short answer that turned out to be mostly wrong. The longer answer is “if you don’t understand how this works, you won’t have the intuition to notice when you get absurd results from the calculator”. If you don’t have that intuition, then when you inevitably make a small usage mistake on a calculator (or in matlab or wolfram alpha or whatever), you’ll end up not realizing that you got a clearly wrong answer.
Lazy teaching
Just sing the Tom Lehrer Elements song
