I saw a meme that was the trolly problem where voters could let the train continue and hit LGBT, racial minorites, [bunch of other stuff here], and Palestine (alluding to trump). or they could pull the lever and only hit Palestine and leave the other people alive (alluding to at the time Biden).
The bottom pannel was the voter saying “I refuse to participate in a broken system” as all the minorities got ran over by the train.
What an incredibly depressing position to be put in.
It might be the “objectively better” choice, but if I saw anyone enthusiastically pull that lever without a second thought I’d think they’re a psychopath. Like you’re still killing thousands upon thousands of people.
I’m not even saying don’t pull the lever, but it should eat at you.
If you don’t pull the lever, those people still die though.
So either pull the lever and (figuratively) 1000 people die, or don’t pull the lever and those same 1000 people die as well as (again figuratively) 5000 more people.
1000 killed if you don’t pull the lever
6000 killed if you do nothing, of which those same 1000 people are in.
If I saw someone hesitating to pull the lever I’d have a problem with em
The haters will downvote. But you’re right and they know it. And it drives them insane.
You can see they largely come from Lemmy.world accounts, the mods there are very friendly towards Zionism, unlike most other instances.
Nah, it’s just an understanding of nuance and being able to see the long term effects of this election. Everyone who is posting stuff like this doesn’t seem to give a fuck about anything but this. It seems you are all ready to let the world burn everywhere else as long as we stop sending bombs.
To be clear, I don’t support what’s happening, at all. Full stop. But we have to help decide the future of one of the strongest countries in the world, there’s plenty to consider. For example, maintaining your right to even vote to effect issues like this in the future.
It seems you are all ready to let the world burn everywhere else as long as we stop sending bombs.
Both Trump and Kamala are aligned on foreign policy, that’s something the DNC and GOP have been aligned on for forever.
But we have to help decide the future of one of the strongest countries in the world, there’s plenty to consider.
The sooner the American Empire loses hegemony the sooner the world can grow.
For example, maintaining your right to even vote to effect issues like this in the future.
If Trump can take away the right to vote by winning, he can do so if he loses. That level of power trancends the Presidency to begin with.
Imported reddit mods. Same power tripping authoritarians they’ve always been.
Lemmy.world is attempting to make Reddit 2, after all.
This seems to have devolved into blanket othering. Which is a great way to isolate yourself in an echo chamber.
The UI layout and elements of Lemmy.world are pretty close to exactly Reddit, without infringing copyright.
Regardless, I see liberalism for 95% of my waking life, liberal views are supported and leftist views are silenced, it’s nice to see more Leftism.
You’re getting down voted but this is what it feels like watching our gargantuan government help eradicate an entire people. Like just fucken stop.
You’re getting down voted but this is what it feels like watching our gargantuan government help eradicate an entire people…
– again.
sometimes the sense of helplessness that comes from watching us repeat the history that everyone abhors and ignores makes me wish that i was a moderate so that i can fool myself into believing that voting for one genocider was better than voter for another genocider.
i also wonder if my existence at the intersection of several vulnerable communities would eventually dispel that world view anyways if i were a moderate since there are so many brown, immigrant, gay, autistic conservatives.
I’m honestly just sitting here wondering when the main bulk of any populace will realize it is always more beneficial to a society to help each other than it is to recreate the jungle of competition and struggles from which we came. It feels like we have forgotten that all of this was about making life easier and now endlessly chase a goal that can never be satisfied (profit).
wondering when the main bulk of any populace will realize it is always more beneficial to a society to help each other than it is to recreate the jungle of competition and struggles from which we came.
It isn’t necessarily about ideas, but course of development. We live in the era of Imperialism, ie large Monopoly and Financial Capital domination of the Global South from the Global North. The weakest links break, and Imperialism weakens. It’s a matter of time.
It’s a matter of time.
i wish that timescale wasn’t in the centuries.
Probably won’t be at the rate we are going from this point on.
if you’re referring to climate change and i would expect that it would cause the 4th near human extinction event at a minimum; so there’s a chance humanity will survive and there will be some sort of a society if it does.
perhaps since we’ve exhausted most of the easily accessible sources of energy; maybe the next society won’t be able to advance past the next stone age on-wards to develop the industrial or technological capabilities that enable such absurd disparities in wealth they can afford to bend the entire world to their will for a genocide; rending 99% of the world helpless as they can do nothing but witness palestinians culled into numbers small enough that isreal no longer considers them a threat.
It sucks to see people think government runs on vibes and magic, as though bombs sent through crocodile tears are any less deadly than bombs sent with glee.
This is getting old and isn’t effective when the only other option according to the US voting system is trump.
Harris is Palestines best bet at continued existence. Sorry if that hurts your feelings or something…
Harris is Palestines best bet at continued existence. Sorry if that hurts your feelings or something…
continued existence is going to happen one way or the other. isreal is going for an american style genocide which means kill enough of the natives so that they’re a small, manageable enough number and then your country can spend the rest of its existence throwing enough $$$ at their reservations to ostensibly show you’re “super sorry” that you genocided so many of them; but not enough to for them to ever escape this newly imposed generational poverty and also without any promise that your country won’t ever fuck them over again in the future when another pipeline needs to be built.
“Hold your nose and vote genocide”.
Rather than rewarding genociders, might I suggest opposing them? I was told this was the worst crime, but apparently it isn’t as bad as not voting for it.
If you’d like to do electoral math, being an automatic lever pull means you have no leverage. And if your conception of electoralism is to cheerlead and support top-down dictates, you’re actively disempowering yourself.
But personally, I don’t think it should require game theory to not vote for any pro-genocide candidate. Demand better or be complicit. I certainly won’t forget this depravity.
Better just to let democracy burn down. Can’t save one nation so let ours fall and have no chance to right the ship. Yeah that makes sense.
What democracy? Isn’t your argument that you have no choice but to genocide? Isn’t your argument that you can never use your vote as leverage to demand what you want?
The strategy portion of what I listed is how you could attempt to be democratic rather than genocide candidate cheerleaders.
Jesus, why am I even wasting my time. I’ve voted in local elections, I’ve seen laws get passed by voters. That is how democracy works. You’re extreme view of “we can only vote for bad people” is beyond childish. The world is a fucked up place, we don’t always have the choices we would want. But saying some stupid shit like America isn’t a democracy is just ignorant and shows that you have no idea how or what a government is, let along are you equipped to have a conversation about it.
They want trump, really, really want trump.
And they don’t give a flying fuck at a rolling donut if everyone else hurts, as long as they get their way on it.
Harris is Palestines best bet at continued existence.
She has promised to never cease sending bombs to Israel for it to “defend itself.”
Do you think Trump would cease sending bombs? I don’t think he’s any better, and in fact would probably send more. We can protest once she actually does it which might be effective, unlike with Trump who would view the protesters as the enemy.
Nope, I believe that, like Harris, he will continue to uphold bipartisan US foreign policy, and maintain the current flow of bombs to Israel.
Painting Harris as “Palestine’s best hope for continued existence” is monstrous and downplays her already active support for continuing the genocide, it reads as you trying to pre-emptively absolve yourself of guilt for voting for her.
Trump has full on said he is going to be a dictator and that people won’t have to vote anymore. With Harris we still have a voice and vote, with Trump democracy is at risk.
Acting like she isn’t the best chance to even have a shot at fixing things is naive.
America isn’t a democracy, never was.
Additionally, if Trump has the ability to take away your right to vote if he takes office, he has the ability to take it away even if he doesn’t, you can’t politely vote fascism away.
Ok, so no one should vote. Laws don’t matter. Nothing is real.
Wait, so you’re saying he has the same power to effect laws as president as he does as citizen? That’s just very wrong… You know plenty of dictators were voted in at some point right? A history lesson might serve you well.
Ok, so no one should vote. Laws don’t matter. Nothing is real.
Again, interesting mental gymnastics.
Wait, so you’re saying he has the same power to effect laws as president as he does as citizen? That’s just very wrong… You know plenty of dictators were voted in at some point right? A history lesson might serve you well.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The ability for an American President to permanently or even temporarily take away the right to vote is so immense it would take a full on coup, at which point the original outcome of the election doesn’t matter. Many dictators were not voted in, you need to open a history book and see what causes fascism.
Here’s an exercise: why do you think fascism is rising in America? Is it ideas, or material conditions?
So you see we’re between a rock and hard place, yet you’re focused on landing on a pillow.
That’s not going to happen. The hard place is gunna suck and hurt but the rock has sharp edges and will hurt more.
Where did I say that she was “Palenstine’s best hope for continued existence”? I said nothing of the sort, so thanks for putting words in my mouth. The truth of the matter is that the US will always send Israel bombs, but one candidate will do it more than the other. Palestine is fucked either way, unfortunately.
Third parties will not win, Trump will not be any better for Palestine than Kamala, and Kamala at least has better domestic policy anyway. I don’t feel guilty for voting for her when the other candidate literally wants me any my queer friends dead, along with Palestine. Sorry, not sorry.
Where did I say that she was “Palenstine’s best hope for continued existence”?
Didn’t realize you were a different person from the original commenter I was talking to. Speaking of, it’s helpful for people to have profile pics for that reason.
The truth of the matter is that the US will always send Israel bombs, but one candidate will do it more than the other.
How will one candidate do it more than the other? Is Trump going to build bombs himself? This is a bipartisan effort.
Third parties will not win, Trump will not be any better for Palestine than Kamala,
Correct, and Kamala will not be any better for Palestine than Trump, and pretending otherwise is monstrous.
I don’t feel guilty for voting for her when the other candidate literally wants me any my queer friends dead, along with Palestine. Sorry, not sorry.
Vote for whoever you want, just don’t pretend your vote for Harris is helping Palestinians. The US is dedicated to genocide either way.
“I didn’t realize I was talking to somebody else. But it shout fault for not being easily recognizable beyond the different name above your words.”
I admitted a mistake, and offered a suggestion, I didn’t cast fault. Touch grass.
I’m not going to upload a profile picture so that you can avoid reading.
Trump will give the military industrial complex more money. Look at what you’re doing now, you’re literally defending Trump. That’s a huge red flag, and you should maybe look at yourself and see why you are now defending him.
Did I say my vote would help Palenstine? No. I said it would keep the status quo, and that if Trump was elected it would only accelerate the genocide and also hurt myself and my queer friends. Are you a single issue voter?
Our two options are Trump or Kamala. There’s no chance a third party will win (by design). So, of those two, I definitely know who I’m voting for.
Trump will give the military industrial complex more money.
Lmao. How? Is he going to beg Congress to pass what they already are agreeing to pass?
Look at what you’re doing now, you’re literally defending Trump. That’s a huge red flag, and you should maybe look at yourself and see why you are now defending him.
Not at all, I think he’s a monstrous piece of shit, I just don’t think he has magic powers like you do.
Did I say my vote would help Palenstine? No. I said it would keep the status quo, and that if Trump was elected it would only accelerate the genocide
Again, materially, how?
Our two options are Trump or Kamala. There’s no chance a third party will win (by design). So, of those two, I definitely know who I’m voting for.
I don’t care who you vote for with respect to the genocide, both candidates support current US foreign policy and neither will change it, and pretending otherwise is monstrous.
Point me in the direction of your preferred candidate then.
If I could pick anyone, it would be Claudia De La Crúz, but even if I vote for her she won’t win. I just want Liberals to stop pretending that voting for Harris will cease the genocide, because it won’t, and it’s monstrous to suggest otherwise.
Yep, you’re right that she wouldn’t win and you would be propping up Trump by voting for her. I don’t see any “liberals” saying she’ll stop the genocide, either. I only see you bringing up that point in this thread.
Yep, you’re right that she wouldn’t win and you would be propping up Trump
Actually I’d be propping up Kamala by not voting for Trump.
Read the thread, there are plenty of people on this thread pretending Harris will be better for Palestine, which is a lie.
