So, with family anyways, despite all outside appearances Christians don’t ‘hate’ a child who turns away. They still love the kid, but their religion teaches them that if they truly love them, they must do anything to make them come back to their religion - even abuse them hoping the kid breaks down and ‘repents.’ That’s how twisted their doctrine is. It makes them commit atrocities in the name of love. And they’re blind to it, because even when others point out how evil their abuse is, the doctrine teaches them that others will call “‘good’ (abuse) evil and ‘evil’ (acceptance) good.” They truly believe they’re helping. They believe that if their child is ‘going to hell,’ any amount of trauma and abuse with even a chance of preventing that is justified. It’s not the people, it’s the ideology. The very fundamentals of Christianity justify literally anything to convert a soul. It is fundamentally evil, all the way back to the moment Jesus died. Anything that claims to be better is no longer Christianity.
My source: The story of my life. A story of abuse and pain, of seeing my loving mother become a monster when I left the church. Forcing me to leave my unbelieving friends. Controling every part of my mind and beliefs to ‘save’ me. And seeing the atrocities that I committed under that same doctrine, and how I was blinded by it.
This needs to end. Christianity must end. The problem isn’t the people - it’s the doctrine. And until the moment that Christan doctrine is destroyed forever, it will never cease to turn more innocent, loving people - even my own mother - into monsters blinded by their evil.
Sucks you had an upbringing like. Sounds a lot like mine, but I didn’t come here to talk about me (Beyond my perceptions, observations and opinion. I’ll give a little detail if you want it). I do agree with you that the words carry weight. However it’s people that carry that weight in proxy. People choose to follow the teachings. People choose to forcefully brainwash and indoctrinate. People choose to ignore their better instincts. The Bible doesn’t raise a hand to you. People do that.
Now I do believe you got some baggage you have to unpack, and I hope for the best on your journey for your betterment, but I personally think that your anger is directed in the wrong direction. Text can always say “that’s wrong” but people are the ones that act on what is “wrong”. In that they are refusing a basic necessity which is positivity and love. Their positivity and love is convoluted in the idea that (as you said) saving your soul is paramount. It’s more important than social, physical, and mental comfort because that’s what happened to them creating a level of normalcy in that environment.
However, when it comes to casting pain, one should not deflect blame from the one causing pain. They had as much opportunity to say to their abusers “no more” and they didn’t. There’s a depressing mix of cowardice and fear that drives these people. The fear of God was literally beat into them too, so that’s how they know how to show love. I know. It sounds absolutely insane, because it is.
Now that that has been said, I want to tell you a story (I know. Unwarranted info about me while I’m still waiting for your permission, but I want to help cross this bridge):
I was homeless. Lived in a 1989 Mazda B2200 for a good year (yeah. Not that bad. I know). But I felt hopeless, angry, suicidal, lost. I had a friend who had extremely religious parents and she was an atheist cyber goth (had a huge crush on her, but I digress). She found out I was homeless and found out what parking lot I was sleeping in that night. She rolled up with her mom. They took me to a restaurant and bought me something to eat. And her mom explained to me that they had a spare room and I was more than welcome to move in under the condition I keep a job and go to college. Of course I obliged because I had absolutely nothing else. That same night I had a bed to sleep in. They never asked for a dime from me as long as I kept my end of the deal. Which I did. I didn’t do well in school because I put more focus on work than I did education, but I tried. Mom realized it and changed the stipulation that as long as I maintain a job and be able to walk in with a smile on my face, then I could stay there. It was amazing. I’ve never felt so welcomed before.
Now mom was a very devote Christian. She DEMANDED that I and her daughter go to church at least one Sunday with them. At this point, how could I say no? I convinced (We’ll call Maggy) Maggy to go, and we went. It was neither mine or Maggy’s jive, and when we all left, Maggy and I expressed that. Mom’s response was “that’s ok. Thank you for going with me”. It hit me then what her idea of saving souls was to make sure that all people do is do better.
That has stuck with me for 17 years. There is the potential of the majority to be damning, but there is also that one small light that can guide you through life.
The moral of that story is that even though there are people that will make your life harder, you will also find those few people that will make your life so much better regardless of what they believe or what you believe. Those are the people that truly love you and you should never let those people go
I hope the best for you
Thank you for sharing your story. And I agree, a few are at fault for accepting that doctrine of abuse over their better judgement. But many did not ‘let it’ get beat into them as you seemed to imply (forgive me if I misunderstand). There is no “cowardice” at fault there. If not for one of those friends like you mentioned (a very similar situation to yours - atheist friend with Christan parents) showing me the light, my life would have ended there. Those who are left got it beat into them, because the only alternative was to end their life like I almost did (no longer in the ‘sample’ we’re considering at that point), or, in a very rare case, be shown the light by a friend, and push through.
Sorry for all the text, but to summarize, there are three outcomes from that kind of abuse - without intervention: giving in, or ending their life. And in the very rare case of intervention, seeing that life can be good, and pushing through.
For that reason, I don’t believe that the majority who had it beat into them as kids are at fault. If no one was there to help them, they had no choice. And those who were ‘successfully’ indoctrinated (obeyed mommy to not go to hell) are blameless. They got caught in the system.
That said, those perpetuating this religion to the masses - preying on the emotionally vulnerable and shouting with megaphones - are at fault. They are responsible for their actions, going beyond even what they were taught.
People will people. You have good people and you have people that haven’t discovered their good. There is no inherent good or evil. There are just people. In a normal standard, people with do what they think are best for people regardless of how wrong it is for the individual person. That does not mean you have to forgive those people though. IMO forgiveness means you’re ignoring your better judgement. It doesn’t mean your life has to be in agony because you can’t find a way to forgive someone. It just means you’ve learned to find acceptance and love by other means.
In short people are horrible, but a person can be kind. My main goal was to try and convince you to see that the text isn’t to blame. If that were the case, then a good majority of illegitimate children would be fathered by Zeus. Beliefs come and go. How people treat other people BECAUSE of those beliefs is permanent
It doesn’t matter if their beliefs warped their sense of reality. They’re abusing kids…. That makes them part of the problem.
Ignorance doesn’t absolve that because according to their scriptures they should know better and they don’t.
They are choosing to abuse kids. They may be so warped that they think it’s necessary… or even “good” but at the end of the day, they’re still abusing kids, and nobody ever truly converts to a faith because someone beat the shit out of them.
Maybe the individuals you’re talking about aren’t the problem, but nevertheless the doctrine was written and is enforced by…people 🙁
It’s crazy how it ended up, from an archaic and universal tale to a pigeon holed idealogy. I guess it’s not crazy when you consider power struggles. It does need to go. People need to tune into themselves a bit more, and realize that’s the only heaven there is, and way more than good enough. The world would be better for it. Evolution is such a drag, but we’ll get there eventually. All we can do is push the boundaries and hope for tomorrow.
Yes. The only way is to educate, and shine the light into the darkest places. Nietzsche got it right - Christianity is “Platonism for the masses.” And that ultimately leads to a herd morality with someone on top. But what he did not forsee is that, even when the one holding the reigns is dead, the ideology continues to run wild, and destroy everything in its path.
I’ve always been a fan of his. I first read it in like 9th grade and it sort of blew my little mind, and opened me up to a universe of thoughts from others, like yourself. I’m definitely thankful for people like you, pushing boundaries, for none of us can do it alone and expect any great change.
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-I apologize in advance for the wall of text. Please bear with me here…-
And that’s not the problem even. A pagan can embrace death, at least given some amount of agnosticism regarding the ‘afterlife’ (if that idea in your mind is what you need to live a good life in reality). The problem is religions that claim to know what the afterlife is, and more troublesome, claim that the way you live this life affects it. All of a sudden, your way of achieving psychological peace, using belief as a tool (whether you acknowlege its constructed nature or not), has turned into a burden on your life and the lives of others. All of a sudden you’re violating others’ autonomy (perhaps the only thing ‘sacred’ to oneself) in the name of ‘love.’ Even from a Nietzschean perspective, using ‘belief’ as a tool for for psychological stability to no longer linger on the fear of death (for the fear itself is innate and cannot v be conquered) isn’t nonsensical. But using it to chase platonic ideas of a ‘true reality’ or ‘absolute’ truth becomes nonsensical, and a burden on others. All of a sudden you’re exercising every ounce of your will to help others in your mind (subconsciously for your own benifit of achieving peace), when in reality you’re only harming both parties… it’s the only thing worse than not exercising your will to power - misdirecting it. Achieving total control over another, and only harming them and yourself with it…
Sorry you had to go through that. But at least you know the truth now. Try to be kind to them, even if they are not kind to you. It sets a good example and shows them there is another way without religion. Indoctrination is a helluva drug.
They will never accept that there is no way but theirs. And I’m still living through it, for one year until I have the means to leave. But yes, I will try to be kind. Thanks for the reminder, I forget at times. It’s easy to forget that the only thing that makes us any better is respect and acceptance - something their doctrine could never let them give.
But at the same time, the doctrine needs to be destroyed. That’s the almost paradoxical puzzle - ruthlessly slaughtering and burning the doctrine, while treating the people trapped within with kindness and love.
How might that be done? They’re taught to resist any arguments against that doctrine from the time they first understand their mother’s voice. That’s why they defend their power over their children so fiercly - why they must be the sole influence on their children. As much as I loved my classical homeschooled education, it was laced with doctrinal poison.
The only way I can see is to regulate against teaching religion in any form of education, and to require some education - even just a few classes per semester - outside of the home ‘bubble’ that these religious groups create.
I am strongly in favour of classical education - homeschooling even - but ‘Christian’ (or any other doctrine) textbooks, curriculums, and education must end.
