Wasn’t Boeing the one whose wages have been compared to minimum wage jobs despite requiring significantly more expertise and having more responsibilities in case of problems/failures?
The problem is usually when people start becoming some kind of fandom of specific corporations. There is nothing wrong with praising the company that does something good this month and their competitor next month when they do something well (or criticizing them when they do something bad). The problem starts when people keep praising the same company regardless of what they do. The same applies to other areas like governments or celebrities or political parties as well.
My dad worked for Boeing in an engineering capacity for his entire career, and my uncle did as well. Boeing used to be one of the best companies to work for, with great benefits and respectable wages. My uncle was union, and it seemed there were some pretty awful changes around 10 years ago, because he lost his job and rehired in a worse position at a different unit, but he was already close to retirement so he just stuck it out. My dad wasn’t union and his position didn’t have any issues, but he was grandfathered into the pension so he got a pretty good deal. I also remember a lot of the jobs leaving WA and moving to SC and other places around 15-20 years ago (again, this is just what my dad told me), so I know at least around then they were looking to cut costs.
So it seems like something changed fundamentally in the last 10-15 years. I didn’t work there, so I don’t know if that timeline is accurate, but Boeing today is nothing like the Boeing my dad worked for throughout his career. And it’s really sad, because Boeing used to be the place to work in the Seattle area before Microsoft and Amazon completely took over. These days, I’d probably point to Wayerhauser, but that’s also based on old info (my neighbor loved working there and thought everyone was well treated).
Boeing is the one found not bothering to check whether plane doors were bolted down, and ended up losing it mid flight. This complete lack of responsibility has been an issue there for a while
Oh, I was more thinking in terms of judging those percentages specifically. I am well aware that the best thing Boeing could do for aviation safety would be to just close down completely at this point.
Eh, I don’t think they should close down, they just need to have their management completely replaced with people who care about aviation safety.
Boeing has a lot of interesting tech, so don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, but we definitely need someone competent to come in and scrub the tub.
I feel it is not just management though, there is a certain kind of corporate culture that is very slow to change. On the other hand if Boeing closed down and most of their assets were bought and employees were employed in a new company there wouldn’t be an expectation by anyone that things would continue as they have been.
But who would buy them? I guess someone like Lockheed Martin, or maybe an airline, idk. And then there’s no guarantee they’ll use it to build commercial airplanes.
I think it would be much better to try to fix the executive team and have that culture trickle down. My company is going through a leadership change, and the cultural shift seems to be pretty quick.
Pretty much, the problem with that idea that the market solves everything on its own is that it just isn’t true unless you have some very specific kind of product (one where the barrier to entry into the market is low so there is plenty of competition, the buyer can judge the quality even if they lack expertise and buys frequently and can recognize whether the product is actually the same or changed in the meantime and where the buyer is free not to buy) and 90% of products aren’t like that, more if you take away regulation on things like trademarks.
Wasn’t Boeing the one whose wages have been compared to minimum wage jobs despite requiring significantly more expertise and having more responsibilities in case of problems/failures?
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The problem is usually when people start becoming some kind of fandom of specific corporations. There is nothing wrong with praising the company that does something good this month and their competitor next month when they do something well (or criticizing them when they do something bad). The problem starts when people keep praising the same company regardless of what they do. The same applies to other areas like governments or celebrities or political parties as well.
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Exactly!
My dad worked for Boeing in an engineering capacity for his entire career, and my uncle did as well. Boeing used to be one of the best companies to work for, with great benefits and respectable wages. My uncle was union, and it seemed there were some pretty awful changes around 10 years ago, because he lost his job and rehired in a worse position at a different unit, but he was already close to retirement so he just stuck it out. My dad wasn’t union and his position didn’t have any issues, but he was grandfathered into the pension so he got a pretty good deal. I also remember a lot of the jobs leaving WA and moving to SC and other places around 15-20 years ago (again, this is just what my dad told me), so I know at least around then they were looking to cut costs.
So it seems like something changed fundamentally in the last 10-15 years. I didn’t work there, so I don’t know if that timeline is accurate, but Boeing today is nothing like the Boeing my dad worked for throughout his career. And it’s really sad, because Boeing used to be the place to work in the Seattle area before Microsoft and Amazon completely took over. These days, I’d probably point to Wayerhauser, but that’s also based on old info (my neighbor loved working there and thought everyone was well treated).
Boeing is the one found not bothering to check whether plane doors were bolted down, and ended up losing it mid flight. This complete lack of responsibility has been an issue there for a while
Oh, I was more thinking in terms of judging those percentages specifically. I am well aware that the best thing Boeing could do for aviation safety would be to just close down completely at this point.
Eh, I don’t think they should close down, they just need to have their management completely replaced with people who care about aviation safety.
Boeing has a lot of interesting tech, so don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, but we definitely need someone competent to come in and scrub the tub.
I feel it is not just management though, there is a certain kind of corporate culture that is very slow to change. On the other hand if Boeing closed down and most of their assets were bought and employees were employed in a new company there wouldn’t be an expectation by anyone that things would continue as they have been.
But who would buy them? I guess someone like Lockheed Martin, or maybe an airline, idk. And then there’s no guarantee they’ll use it to build commercial airplanes.
I think it would be much better to try to fix the executive team and have that culture trickle down. My company is going through a leadership change, and the cultural shift seems to be pretty quick.
I think those are both signs of upper management being shit
Well, of that and of the fact that the government regulators dropped the ball in various areas either on regulation or enforcement of that regulation.
Wasn’t the us kind of about a lack of regulation?
Pretty much, the problem with that idea that the market solves everything on its own is that it just isn’t true unless you have some very specific kind of product (one where the barrier to entry into the market is low so there is plenty of competition, the buyer can judge the quality even if they lack expertise and buys frequently and can recognize whether the product is actually the same or changed in the meantime and where the buyer is free not to buy) and 90% of products aren’t like that, more if you take away regulation on things like trademarks.
Any product like that would be a product most people would just make themselves, like paper airplanes