It’s a situation that I have been expecting for a while, but I wasn’t fully ready to accept it. Specifically it’s one of my LGBTQ friends who honestly believes in the democrats will protect them and their partner. I have tried to make the point that both parties are eroding any sort of civility towards all marginalized groups, but fear seems to drive them more than logical observations. They make the excuse that change doesn’t happen over night and that the left continues to grow and will have meaningful affects down the road. I fundamentally just don’t agree with that idea and vocalize it regularly. More and more it is ending up in a circular argument where I am painted as unrealistic and my rhetoric (leftist rhetoric) is doing more harm than good because it promotes distrust in the only system we have to work with. I try to tell them it’s kind of the whole point. We gotta start somewhere if we want to see a better, more representative system, but they are so hung up on the immediate future while simultaneously saying that my idealistic feelings are shortsighted and I cant expect change in the immediate future… The double-talk is wild, I know.
I am trying my hardest to stop from engaging at this point because on the most basic level we agree on a lot of stuff, but they are just way to wrapped up in the fear mongering of the democratic party. They know that the two party system is broken, they know that something drastic needs to change, but they also think that they are powerless to do anything except choose the lesser evil. It pains me because I am watching them do the same shit past generations have done, where they give up on their ideals for the sake of preserving the current status quo that they benefit from. I am legitimately watching them imply “fuck you, got mine” under the guise of civic duty and I hate it. I want nothing more than to be able to finally say “I told you so” without being a smug asshole about it and ruining our friendship.
Thanks for reading my rant. It’s probably a bit disjointed, but the frustration is boiling over and I needed to vent to the only group of people that seems to understand the hopelessness of being a disenfranchised leftist.
For me it’s the whole “the left is continuing to grow”
Liberals have been shifting to the right for years. The democratic president is endorsed by dick fucking cheyney, is running on more cruelty on the border, and has completely given up even discussing universal Healthcare, and has completely dropped the ball on abortion.
The liberals are objectively getting worse which is to be expected when their main strategy is justnconceding to republicans on everything.
And it doesn’t even bother liberals, they’ll tell you with a straight face that bidens the most pro environemnt pro union president in history you can tell them “were drilling more oil than anyone ever anywhere and every time there’s a strike you liberals keep saying it’s a Russian hoax to hurt democrats”
And they just roll their eyes and fucking act like they’re so morally superior your real world examples don’t count.
UUUUUUUGH!
Yeah its the smugness that gets me the most. Especially my debate lord friends where I almost hear the deep inhale they take before spouting off about the systemic limits… Of systems they refuse to uproot out of fear of losing access to amazon prime.
Yea the root of the cause is liberals (seemingly intentionally) not actually understanding nefotiation despite the fact they regularly say compromise is their top priority.
You see it in the last strike where theybwere all saying the opening demands were completely unrealistic and then 48 hours later the union had reached a really beneficial deal.
Liberals think if you actually want to get $100 for something an opening bid of $200 is a moral failing.
Liberals negotiate themselves into a corner before their opponents even make an opening offer.
To continue the over simplified example of wanting $100 for something, a liberal woukd say “ideally I want $100 for this but I’m willing to go as low as $60”
Then republicans say “fuck you ill give you $10” and Liberals settle on $5 for the sake of compromise.
Exactly this.
We must demand true socialism from liberal politicians, so the compromise at least is somewhat acceptable on the short term. (Not that we can
out capitalism…)
The minimum program is non-neoliberal economics and anti-imperialism. That’s the absolute minimum. IF they are not willing to make a compromise with the left why would I vote for them? Because the other guy is a right-winger? Therefore I should vote for a different right winger with different rhetoric, because allegedly they are less corrupt?
Same shit is happening in Europe with different team colors.
A liberal gay friend of ours literally said to us that he’d vote for [anti-gay far right party] if they had a chance to win against [corrupt anti gay right wing party who had been in power for a a while now], but now he thinks he will vote for [centre right party with dubious credentials], only to stop the BIG BAD WOLF, even though he’s a “leftist”. It makes no sense.
Social democracy, real social democracy is the compromise, and even that’s nowhere near enough in the age of climate cataclysm…
Liberals say I’m not pragmatic… but hey let’s say I have 4 core political principles: who’s the politician who shares at least 2 with me? Who? Why would I vote for 0 matches? Is this the glorious democracy you speak of? For fucks sake, liberals are exhausting… in many ways more exhausting than right wingers.
It is exhausting. Especially like you say compared to right wingers.
Chuds are aware of the fact and will admit that a lot of their beliefs are just the opposite of whatever you think and they have those beliefs to piss you off.
Liberals have the exact same belief but also claim theirs is the rational and moral belief and actually you’re the one being divisive because you don’t agree with them the most progressive policy is to shoot all immigrants (and a few of these annoying lefties) into the ocean out of a cannon. Because they’re pragmatic and compassionate intellectuals.
Like my knee jerk reaction is to sit that person down and explain to them they aren’t a leftist they just want to absolve themselves morally. They are voting for right wing parties, that is mutually exclusive to being a leftist. They aren’t progressive they’re slightly right of center, just like most people, but they recognize that’s a moral failing so they lie to themselves and say they’re a leftist even though they’re thinking acting and voting light a lib.
It’s like all the American libs arguing the democrats are better than republicans on isreal. It doesn’t matter how they word it “the party currently doing a genocide is less likely to do a genocide than the party not currently doing a genocide” is never gonna convince anybody who’s actually operating in reality. But they can’t say “we’ve decided continuing to do a genocide is more important than getting your vote but also if you don’t vote for us we’ll consider that a moral failing on your part which makes us superior.”
But of course then your being divisive and doing purity tests so the only rational response from your friend is to go full blown right wing because you were mean to them, even thoughthat change wouldn’t involve thinking acting or voting any differently.
Truly, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
Chuds do this too tbh, even more so because they’re claiming they’re fighting “evil”
Chuds deep down know they’re full of shit and will admit itnsonet8mes. It’s the wh9le sartre “never believe the anti semits is unaware of the absurdity of their arguments”
They relish the fact that they just said a bunchnof bullshi6 but they can just go “nuh uh” to any counter argument and watch the lib get mad.
Libs literally believe they’re doing the right thing while advocating for the same atrocities and literally look down on you for suggesting the fact they have the same goals and proposals as chids means they’re the same.
I think they mean PSL and DSA and such, these people are (usually…) at least not delusional to think the Democrats can be “pushed left” anymore
That’s absolutely the line constantly trrotted out by liberals and op said that was their friends justification for voting for kamala.
Blue Maga is very real, millions of people not only think the dems can be pushed left, millions more believe they already are left.
sad