• Skua@kbin.earth
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    14 days ago

    One thing that might help it feel less strange is realising that you already use a grammatically plural pronoun to refer to individuals all the time: the word “you”. It’s always “you are tall”, not “you is tall”, same as “we” or “they” instead of “he” or “she”. This is because it was historically plural, and “thou” was the singular. Over time we started using the plural to be more polite, and then eventually always using it.

    • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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      13 days ago

      “Thou is tall” sounds weird though.

      you already use a grammatically plural pronoun to refer to individuals all the time: the word “you”. It’s always “you are tall”,

      This made my brain short circuit lol. Can’t believe I never noticed.

      • Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com
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        13 days ago

        That’s because “is” is the third person conjugation of Be, not the second. Of course it sounds weird.

        “Thou are”, and the actually correct “thou art” both feel much more natural.

          • Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com
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            13 days ago

            The conjugation of Be, “is” is not used in the second person (you, be it singular or plural) any more than “am” is (“am” is first person singular form.) regardless of the plurality (or lack thereof) in the subject.

            The correct Be conjugations for second person subjects are “art” (2nd, singular, archaic) and “are”.

            • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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              13 days ago

              So is thou/you plural or singular? I’m very confused. I’m not a grammar person lol. This conversation began because someone said thou is singular.

              • Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com
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                12 days ago

                Do you remember your conjugation tables from Spanish or French class?

                English has them too, but the modern ones are much smaller than most (all?) other European languages.

                Editted in:
                Prn. | To be | note I am 1st person (the speaker) singular.
                We are 1st person plural.
                Thou art 2nd person (the one being spoken to) singular (archaic).
                You are 2nd plural and singular.
                (s)he /it is 3rd person (neither the speaker or spoken to) singular.
                They are 3rd plural and singular

                • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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                  12 days ago

                  I think because it’s so small for English and because I’m a native speaker it’s all just second nature and I don’t really know the technicalities. Conjugating verbs in Spanish is one of my most frustrating areas of learning lol.

                  • Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com
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                    12 days ago

                    Yeah, it’s only really “Be” and “have” that have any conjugation variety in English, and then the old 3rd singular +s and past tense and participles.

                    Since most English speakers don’t learn much grammar it can be tricky. A few lessons on English grammar would probably make learning a second language much easier.

    • Makeshift@sh.itjust.works
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      13 days ago

      I’m joining in the “this blew my mind” sentiment and just want to say thanks for sharing this tidbit of info.

    • samus12345@lemm.ee
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      14 days ago

      It only feels strange because of how it’s been used previously in my lifetime, not from historical usage. But as you’ve shown, language changes over time, and not having a singular neutral pronoun has proven to be a big omission in English (since “they” has only traditionally been used that way in certain limited cases). If it was good enough for “you,” it’s good enough for “they!”