You must log in or # to comment.
deleted by creator
They really just want to do whatever they want without consequences. What a bunch of fucking toddlers.
Libertarianism follows the belief that personal liberties should be maximised just so long as they do not infringe on the liberties of another. This is of course from the perspective of top down law, and not from the perspective of the court of public opinion.
Beyond that they want to put you in a Clockwork Orange device to keep your eyes and ears open and be forced to hear their insane rants for all eternity.
But with a ball gag installed so no back talk.
I am concerned that you are pulling your argument from misuse, and not from any fundamental meaning.
The Gadsden flag fundamentally represents libertarianism. Libertarianism is anti-authoritarian. This is, by definition, opposed to the idea of the rampant misuse of, and oppression by the police force. Libertarianism is not about some idea of “liberty for me, but not for thee”. That is blatantly false. Anyone who follows that line of thinking is not a libertarian.
EDIT: Upon re-reading your comment, your repeated reference to “Liberals” doesn’t make any logical sense. Liberalism (this heavily depends on how one defines “liberalism”), and libertarianism are not mutually exclusive ideologies. Nor are conservatism (this also heavily depends on how one defines “conservatism”), and libertarianism mutually exclusive ideologies. The only ideology that is mutually exclusive to libertarianism is authoritarianism.
Thats why they are called LOLbertarians.
Do you have any supportive argument for that statement? What do you specifically have against the idea of libertarianism?
I don’t think it’s the idea of libertarianism being derided here, so much as the “practitioners” of libertarianism.
deleted by creator
Why put quotations around “practitioners”? If you think that there is nothing wrong with the ethos of libertarianism, then practicing it equally would have no issue. If by “practitioners” you are referring to the auth-right, and the like that seem interested in misappropriating the Gadsden Flag, then why even bother putting them in the same category as libertarians when they are so obviously not? Don’t give them any such satisfaction, or wiggle room. They are not libertarians.
It’s because so many shitty repubs have jumped to calling themselves libertarians and then flying the Gadsden flag while having a punisher sticker and thin blue line all at once. Just like they co-opted the tea party during the Ron Paul days.
The Dems have the tankies though, don’t know which is worse though.
It’s because so many shitty repubs have jumped to calling themselves libertarians and then flying the Gadsden flag while having a punisher sticker and thin blue line all at once.
They are free to call themselves whatever they like, but that doesn’t make it factual, nor does it change the defintion of libertarianism, or the history, and true meaning of the Gadsden Flag.
What party do libertarian vote in the elections?
It is not my place to generalize people’s actions, or motives. I am only speaking to the idea of libertarianism itself.
They’re describing how people using the Gadsden flag typically act; they fellate the police as long as they’re abusing minorities. “Don’t tread on me” isn’t a statement of principal to most of them. What they actually mean is “tread on others while I watch and cheer.”
They’re describing how people using the Gadsden flag typically act; they fellate the police as long as they’re abusing minorities.
Such individuals have no idea what the Gadsden flag represents, then. By extension, such individuals also misunderstand what “libertarianism” means.
“Don’t tread on me” isn’t a statement of principal to most of them. What they actually mean is “tread on others while I watch and cheer.”
For lack of a more elloquent repsonse, such individuals are idiots, and they should be made aware of their idiocy.
Oookay, well that’s what the meme is making fun of, so I guess you agree with it?
As shown int he title, the meme is still founded on the idea that the Gadsden flag is a conservative symbol, which it isn’t.
Because conservative idiots use it and they should be made aware of their idiocy. You literally just said it.
I am a little bit wary to agree with your statement, as I am not sure how you are defining “conservatism”. Libertarianism is mutually exclusive with authoritarianism, but not necessarily conservatism, or liberalism. But, again, this heavily depends on how such things are defined. Many people have different ways of looking at those terms.
Personally, I like the MST3K version.
Gasden Flag during Obama presidency: Don’t Tread On Me
Gadsden Flag during Trump presidency: Tread On Me Harder, Daddy
Gadsden Flag during Biden Presidency: Please don’t be mean to our daddy Putin.
tread harder daddy
A pro-authoritarian statement.
Goddamn reactionaries for stealing the Gadsden Flag. Luckily, there is an alternative
I swear to God I’ll kill us all if you
fuck with memildly inconvenience meFTFY
Just give me an excuse. I didn’t buy a grenade just to not fucking use it.
A true ammosexual
This is a sick and disgusting use of that 🦅conservative®🦅 flag.
What is that in the snake’s mouth?
…where do people even buy those??Step on snek, mommy
A pro-authoritarian statement.
Did you not see the ball gag in the mouth?
deleted by creator
The blue lives matter flag is practically authoritarian. That is fundamentally opposed to the Gadsden flag.
Idk if you noticed but the image in the post is not the normal Gadsden flag actually. If you look closely you can see a few key differences.
In all honesty, I have noticed that my replies in this thread have become somewhat separated from its original scope. The comment that you replied to was more general to the rest of the conversation, and not directly related to the post’s image itself, which it should have been. This is my mistake.
Shouldn’t that say "mommy’ or “daddy” at the end?
You want authoritarianism…?EDIT: From what I can see, your post history suggests otherwise. Still, though, I’m growing rather tired of the misappropriation of the Gadsden flag – it is not a conservative symbol.
The joke is improperly founded, imo. The post’s title “Kinkservative” more or less proves that the joke is founded on the presumption that the Gadsden flag is some auth-right symbol, which it is quite far from being. All this post does is push a narrative that the Gadsden flag is something that it is not. I don’t want to see it be twisted into something opposite of what it fundamentally represents.
A symbol is only as good as what it represents. Symbols mean different things to different people, but the zeitgeist determines what the Gadsden Flag means in the here and now, and in the here and now the Gadsden Flag is the flag of auth-right fascists pretending to be Libertarian only so far as it means their own freedoms and nobody else’s.
The collective’s opinion need not be static. My argument is that the flag’s original intent needs to be defended. I don’t wish for it to permanently become twisted into something that represents the auth-right.
It still baffles me as to why they would even touch it in the first place. It’s opposed to everything the auth right stands for.
The principles represented in the past by the Gadsden flag don’t have to be permanently bonded to the literal flag. Symbols are tools, and if a tool is damaged by misuse then it should be replaced with one suited appropriately to the task.
The Gadsden flag as it was originally intended is a historical context now. The damaged modern reputation for the Gadsden flag is the crazy stuff done by the proud boys and alt-right groups that wave the Gadsden flag at all of their rallies. Mourn it if you must but it’s too late to try and protect this symbol from having its meaning warped, it happened years ago.
I think if you want a modern example of a symbol that stands up to oppression you don’t have to look any further than Pride flags
The Gadsden flag as it was originally intended is a historical context now. The damaged modern reputation for the Gadsden flag is the crazy stuff done by the proud boys and alt-right groups that wave the Gadsden flag at all of their rallies. Mourn it if you must but it’s too late to try and protect this symbol from having its meaning warped, it happened years ago.
I appreciate your viewpoint; it is fair. I will continue, for the time being, to fight for the flags original meaning, as I haven’t lost hope.
I think if you want a modern example of a symbol that stands up to oppression you don’t have to look any further than Pride flags
While I wholeheartedly support the movement behind the original Pride flag, I’m not so certain about the new one – they appear to be more interested in ideas of equity, rather than equality.
As an aside, in my research I came across this:
A happy middleground between the two? 😜
I’m afraid you’ll have to be more specific what you mean by “more interested in equity, rather than equality”. To me, and as far as I know the reason for, the new design of that newer flag is resistance to oppression through collaberation. The opposite of “divide and conquer”, since often times disparaged groups have difficulty seeking fair treatment due to their small relative portion of the population.
I’ve seen the rainbow gadsden flag before. To me, as someone who is not a fan of modern use of the gadsden flag because I think it means more by association than design, it seems more like an attempt to repair the reputation of the Gadsden flag than anything else.
Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too late
I personally don’t believe so, and even if you are right, it would be a sincere loss, and not something that should be encouraged.
“Misappropriation” lololol
The Gadsden flag is fundamentally not a conservative symbol, so I don’t know why it’s being used, and treated as such. This post, and meme is presuming that the Gadsden flag is fundamentally represents those in the alt-right, auth-right, conservative, etc. circles. I have no idea why it’s popped up in groups like the “proud boys”; they’re idiots if they think it aligns with them in any shape or form.
My dude, I am as angry as anyone that the Trumpers and such have taken the Gadsen flag from us. But just like the pain of accepting Pluto’s demotion, you need to accept that they have successfully done so. That ship has sailed. It will not be a suitable symbol for groups at the opposite end of the spectrum (or by anyone who isn’t a raging fascist) during the remainder of our natural lifetimes.
There’s no path to reclaiming it in the near term.
But just like the pain of accepting Pluto’s demotion, you need to accept that they have successfully done so
Are you equating the scientific reclassification of a celestial body to the missappropriation of a political symbol…? That is a ridiculous comparison to make. Those are in no way similar concepts.
That being said, I refuse to give up on the Gadsden flag so easily. It’s history is worth fighting for, in my opinion. Not to mention that, from a vexological standpoint, it is brilliantly designed!
Are you equating the scientific reclassification of a celestial body to the missappropriation of a political symbol…? That is a ridiculous comparison to make. Those are in no way similar concepts.
I was just having some fun with it. 🙂
That being said, I refuse to give up on the Gadsden flag so easily.
Fair enough.
I was just having some fun with it. 🙂
I apologize if my response came off as harsh. It is difficult to decypher tone, or intent through text at times.
No worries!
Flags always eventually get misappropriated. Its part of the core nature of them.
The only way to prevent that from happening is for people to stand up for their true meaning, and to consistently, and publically denounce their misuse. The best way to cure bad speech is to use better speech.
You’re right. Ima start rocking a swastika to fight against its appropriation from Zoroastrinism, I’m sure everyone will understand and do it too.
While I understand what you’re getting at, I’m not certain that it’s necessarily a fair argument in this case. All I’m saying is that we should fight to prevent such misappropriations. The only way for that to happen is for a collective shift, and restoration in understanding to happen. One of the main issues is that people, on average, have little to no understanding of the Gadsden Flag’s history, or meaning so when some entity attributes its meaning to something other than what it actually is, people end up thinking that it must be the true original meaning.
people end up thinking that it must be the true original meaning
People know and react to its current meaning, regardless of knowing its original meaning or not.
Exactly like the swastika. Some people know its true original meaning, some don’t. But all know what it means seeing someone today brandishing one.
People know and react to its current meaning, regardless of knowing its original meaning or not.
This statement is missing the point that such thinking requires some prerequisite knowledge of the symbol. Why stop at uncommonly seen, and extremely modern usage, and abandon the well over 200 years of pre-existing knowledge?
Exactly like the swastika. Some people know its true original meaning, some don’t. But all know what it means seeing someone today brandishing one.
Still though, I wouldn’t give up on the Gadsden flag so quickly. I firmly believe that as long as the average public can be made aware of how ridiculous the auth-right’s using the flag is, and continues to call them out on it, it can be saved. I’m pretty sure that the majority of the auth-right, and other groups haven’t considered how contradicting it is to their platform. To me, seeing someone in the auth-right flying the Gadsden flag is just as weird as if, hypothetically, a marxist decided to fly it.
Why stop at uncommonly seen, and extremely modern usage, and abandon the well over 200 years of pre-existing knowledge?
It’s not like those who know its original meaning suddenly decided to change it. If enough people who don’t know or don’t care about the original meaning give it a new meaning, then that does become a “correct” meaning.
Just like language. You can yell at everyone that literally doesn’t mean figuratively all you want, but in the end it still ended up updated in all the dictionaries as meaning just that (along with its original meaning, of course).
