https://www.givesendgo.com/legalfund-ceo-shooting-suspect
Wanna help get those numbers up?
Best donation I’ve ever made.
Donated, thanks
How does it benefit anyone?
Benefits a hero
A hero who kills one random guy, changes nothing, gives 10k to the police, and lives in prison?
Why would we want that?
It’s about sending a message
Whats the message?
First it wasn’t a random guy, he went after Brian Thomson specifically.
The message is that people support what Luigi did, or perhaps they don’t condone murder but they support that the industry is fucked and they want change.
I am interested in the trial and whether any meaningful change comes from this act. Either way I think it’s pretty heroic to throw your live, a rather privileged life at that, away for what you believe in. Misguided or not.
Brian Thompson is a random guy who worked as a suit for an unethicaly company. He was immediately replaced by another suit and the company has openly denied doing anything wrong, refusing to change how unethical it still is to this day.
Polls show Luigi’s actions are not condoned by a majority of any demographic. Change in the industry won’t come from this.
Heroic is selflessly doing what is right, not selfishly doing what is emotionally pleasing.
How is he going to defend against suicide with a bullet to the back of his head?
I know it’s exited the news cycle, but I still remember this was a big thing for the left and right to both agree on supporting. I’d very much like to prompt Trump for his opinion on the man to force him to take a side.
Best to not remind Trump that Luigi exsist. Don’t need him falling out a window with the cameras off and the guards napping.
prompt Trump for his opinion on
the mananything to force him to take a side.That’s how you get banned from the press pool.
Actually, a pretty substantial minority of people think what Luigi did was right.
That was not the sentiment I saw when it happened.
I saw incredibly low turnout for people against the action taken but I saw people on the left and right agreeing and with glee. Like everywhere.
Here is an Emerson Poll that found TOTAL 17% of people agree the killing was justified, and the highest demographic was young people with 41% (still not a majority). https://www.axios.com/2024/12/17/united-healthcare-ceo-killing-poll
The poll was about a week after the killing.
Another small poll of college students found this:
according to a poll conducted by College Pulse and shared with Newsweek—32 percent of survey participants said he should be sentenced to life imprisonment with the possibility of parole; 14 percent chose life imprisonment without the chance of parole; 26 percent preferred a fixed-term prison sentence; and 2 percent believed he should get the death penalty. The remaining respondents chose “other” or “no opinion.”
Hmm that’s interesting. My impression was that approval was much higher, anecdotal of course tho and not really representative.
Never heard of Emerson but I would be asking who paid for that poll? Did they have a vested interest in playing down support? Has the poll been manipulated to get the best charts etc.
PragerU puts out lots of polls, but it doesn’t mean they’re valid.
Emerson College was established in Boston, Massachussets in 1880
Their “About Us”
The Polling Center is a non-partisan organization dedicated to accurately reflecting populations through public opinion research. Established 25 years ago as a classroom exercise, in 2012 Emerson College Polling was transformed into an innovative, nationally-ranked polling center. Emerson College Polling conducts research on civic behavior, polling methodology, public health, and public policy.
Emerson College Polling (ECP) is a Charter Member of the American Association of Public Opinion Research (AAPOR) Transparency Initiative. AAPOR is the leading professional organization of public opinion and survey research professionals in the United States, with members from academia, media, government, the nonprofit sector, and private industry. ECP publishes not only its full topline results, but also its full crosstabs for each survey, aiming to ensure that data is easily accessible and available to researchers.
They also have a MBFC rating of least biased LINK HERE
They haven’t failed a fact check in 5 years, have very low traffic/popularity, and in the past rarely reported on politics.
Thanks for this. Very usual to know. Appreciate you linking sources too.
Are you a cop or just a bootlicker?
I bet more cops and bootlickers agree with you than not. My stance doesn’t promote any authority at all, it’s as simple as “pointless murder is wrong, doesn’t help us”.
Luigi’s assassination absolutely had a point, and had immediate results in BCBS rescinding/delaying their plan to cut anesthesia allowance for people during surgery. Luigi directly saved thousands of people from unnecessary suffering with just one targeted attack. Imagine what a more widespread action could accomplish.
I’m betting you’re a cop. You’ve got the same blind loyalty to the law, paired with a lack of moral compass.
BCBS announced those changed before the assassination, they also stopped suing over medical debts the year prior, got any others?
Also, even if Luigi did somehow change that and not the countless other people including the governor going after them in court and on social media for the year prior, it would have saved people from potential debt, not death and not certain debt.
That’s a lie. I cannot find a single source predating the attack.
I made a couple edits trying to find a better source, sorry for the wait.
Ah wait hang on wrong link, 1 moment
Theres like a million articles talking about this story after UHC happened so it’s taking a minute
It was published Dec 4th talking about “last thursday” which would be Nov 28th!
Ah but the article was updated on the 6th…
You know what, I might have been misinformed about this, it’s possible that the changes took place on Dec 5th, all the paperwork being written up, board meetings held, and filed less than 24 hours after the assassination, although I still doubt Luigi had as much to do with it as the Governor saying “Outrageous. I’m going to make sure New Yorkers are protected" just before that. And also those bad policy changes were announced in late 2023 or January 2024 but also never implemented due to criticism they received then as well.
I agree that cops have no place here. If They wanna lick boots and circlejerk eachother about how just their unjust system is they can go to reddit or Twitter.
Pretty off topic
Is murder always wrong?
Like the trolley problem. How is indifference to other preventable deaths any better than killing one dude.
I mean, definitionally yes murder is always wrong. Killing isn’t always wrong, but murder is when killing is unjustified so yeah, it’s always wrong.
Maybe in law speak, but murder and kill are synonymous.
They are very similar, yes, but synonyms will often have subtly different definitions and connotations that mean you can’t just replace one with the other wherever you want. Frankly, the difference between murder and killing is something I learned in high school English so I understand that the difference might have been off your radar before now, but this is the way the words are used most frequently, they’re different words for a reason. Murder implies a moral or legal judgement on the action of killing, and killing is just dispassionately describing that something has died as a result of some other action. We all learn something new every day, it’s OK not to know something.
Luigi’s Trolly Problem:
2 separate tracks
Track 1 has Brian Thompson, pulling the lever kills him but he is immediately replaced by another guy
Track 2 has some unknown number of people who will die regardless of any action you take
Yes, one Luigi will not solve the problem. Once you get past 4 or 5, you’ll find less people willing to take on the risk of the job. You get to a dozen, and you’ll be shocked just how much progress we get.
If nobody does the job then nobody gets health insurance and everything is out of pocket for everyone, you realize? Even worse now that the USA Federal Government is freezing funds for Medicaid.
Pray for Saint Luigi
And thus the lord said: “Get really pissed off reading books and news, then kill people you’ve never met before instead of doing literally anything else to actually change the system that causes the problems you were angry about in the first place” Amen.
EDIT: /s is mandatory
Sanders was the compromise choice
Luigi 2028
Eat the rich
Wait … how is that link working?? kbin.social has been offline for months.
Edit: Ohhhh … the name of the community at LW is “eattherich@kbin.social” - now I see.
No, you’re right the 1st time. It’s eattherich, hosted at kbin. It’s a weird side effect of federating. The original instance hosting the comm is gone, but all posts and comments go into the local instance first (in this case, Ozma’s posts to .world) to be federated back to the main instance (kbin). Since kbin is gone, that federation ain’t happening, and nobody from any other instance can view the content from their home instance. But you can directly view .world’s local copy of what it thinks the instance should look like, which contains all of Ozma’s contributions.
This is super cool
I don’t think we’ve yet witnessed the full benefits of the distributed nature/federation.
Is it just me or is the sub empty
It’s not just you. See my other comment for technical explanation.
Your instance needs to be instructed to fetch it.
E.g., by setting up a subscript’ to the community, or viewing individual threads and comments.
The interesting thing here, as the other responder observed, is it’s the local copy of a previously-federated community.
I would have assumed that the copies would be read-only from outside the actual instance. But it sounds like you’re able to post to the copied-communities too. Lul.
That sounds like something I have no control over but the admins might
It’s you.
Given the way federating works, just because you’re seeing something doesn’t mean everybody else is seeing the same thing you do.
And? I can see content there. Parent commenter can’t.
There’s a difference between “works for me”, and “it’s you”.
But I am full!
I think by now we can all verify there were no positive impacts from what Luigi did, so there is absolutely no benefit to funding his legal defence: it’s just throwing money away to scammers and lawyers that his rich family could already afford anyways.
Are you blind?
My gods! This was the one! The comment that made me change my mind. What a thorough and well thought out argument citing all of those sources.
What a thorough and well thought out argument citing all of those sources.
Fun little double standard you have there.
There might be more Luigi, if people know they will have their lawyers funded. Then things can change.
I mean if a drone can take out a firefighting plane, why not a corporate jet? You don’t need 1000 Luigis. You just need need 1000 people who can follow through on a plan that will make the wealthy afraid.
Go on…
Things didn’t change with 1 Luigi, won’t change with 10, would hardly change with 100, and you’ll never get 1000.
1 Luigi could have made real change by participating in politics, instead he threw away his life and his rich boy education. The money in his backpack when he was caught alone could have completely changed people’s lives instead of buying a margarita machine for the precinct.
You have to have a good education to realize how fucked we are.
I listened to a clip a minute ago on the radio of dumbass Trump and his dumbass supporters from the show he made on inauguration day, signing orders, and the one withdrawing from the Paris Climate Accord stuck out to me. “Could you imagine Biden doing this?” Raucous applause. “This is going to save $1,000,000,000,000.” Raucous applause.
No, I could not imagine Biden doing it, because it’s fucking idiotic. The world is burning. The air is turning to poison. Only cutting greenhouse emissions in half will provide any hope of anything resembling social stability over the next several decades and the only way to do that is to reign in the dozens of corporate poluters who are responsible for such desolation. It will save a trillion dollars for corporations, which savings they will absolutely not pass on to Trump’s gullible, stupid supporters, but in fact they will use to live lifestyles marked by even more greenhouse emissions, yachts and air travel. Even the capitalists who are self aware enough to see what’s coming will use their savings to build lavish prepper bunkers and hoard medical technology. When shit hits the fan, and MAGA rubes are chanting “let us in” outside the bunker while wild fires close in, maybe as they suffocate and burn to death they will realize they should have done more.
One good looking kid with an education going into politics isn’t going to overcome the power structures that have these donkeys cheering wildly for the missteps towards their own demise. You have to have the education to know that we are past that. Their kids will be dying of small pox, and they’ll still be blaming their grief and anger on the woke left and diversity, equality, and inclusiveness, on immigrants and the unhoused. The oligarchs own the government and the media. Only the people at large can depose them, one by one. We have all these mass shooters looking for infamy, maybe after Luigi they will see they can get actual fame, adoration, if they choose a culpable target instead of rooms full of innocent kids.
I think that’s what Luigi’s supporters are saying.
I can pretty much guarantee you most of Luigi’s supporters are not the most educated bunch.
One kid with an education going into politics does a hell of a lot more than one random murder that makes the board of a random company play musical chairs for a few minutes.
A ratfucking healthcare CEO whose killed far more people with his greed and indifference to human suffering was erased from this planet.
I see that as a net postive.
A ratfucking healthcare CEO that pushed a few people into debt while redistributing wealth for covering the healthcare costs of a very large majority of planholders.
Who was immediately replaced by another healthcare CEO doing the exact same thing.
I see that as nothing but 1 more corpse on the pile.
“pushed a few ppl into debt”
You have got to be kidding me…
Nobody has any real numbers. Some people say UHC denies 30% of claims, KFF say UHC denied 17% of costs, NyTimes say they denied more private care than medicaid plans, and the exact costs of the denied claims per person is completely unknown.
UHC is worse than the competition, but they’re still worse today and nothing is improving.
i’ll bet if you knew that making these posts put your life in imminent danger, you’d stop making them.
see how that works?
Didn’t work for UHC why would it work for me?
Because it was a one off. It needs to be more than that.
I think you’d be working your way down a list of millions and still wouldn’t see any positive change.
Nah, just a few hundred.
Anyone smarter than me in law know if there is even a remote chance he walks?
Aside from the nullification and hung jurys, there’s a good chance for a mistrial from them parading him around and letting everyone in the US know he fought for them.
How did he fight for anybody? Just seems like a run of the mill emotional murder.
Fucking troll
I’m not good at law but I have heard from people smarter than me that there are chances for at least a hung jury (I think could be retried) and there’s also another option called jury nullification, where the jury essentially says, “yeah we know he is guilty but we don’t agree with the law in this case” and acquits.
Every jury I’ve ever been on has been hung, just by averaging alone
The jury nullification thing pisses me off.
I get that people don’t want Luigi to go to jail but wishing for juries to just make up the law based on the vibe of the case is just bonkers.
The court system is a joke already.
I’m going to copy WoodScientist’s post. Don’t know how to tag, sorry, but credit goes to him for this.
"I would say that jury nullification isn’t just some accident of the legal system, but the primary reason we have juries in the first place.
Judges will say that juries are meant to just decide the simple facts of the case. But what sane person would ever design a system that assigns 12 random untrained nobodies to do that task? If all that mattered was judging the facts of the case, why not have 12 legal scholars instead? Why isn’t “juror” a profession, just like being a lawyer or judge is? If we want people to just apply the letter of the law to the facts of a case, why not fill juries with professionals, each who had a legal degree, and who have sat as jurors hundreds of times? Judging evidence and reading law is a skill. And it’s one that can be educated on, trained, and practiced. Why do we have amateur juries, when professional juries would clearly do their purported job so much better? Or why not just do what some countries do, and have most or all trials decided solely by judges? What exactly is the point of a jury? Compared to everything else in the courtroom, the jurors, the ones actually deciding guilt or innocence, are a bunch of untrained amateurs. On its face, it makes no damn sense!
No, the true reason, and really the only reason, we have juries at all is so that juries can serve to judge both the accused AND the law. Juries are meant to be the final line of defense against unjust laws and prosecution. It is possible for a law itself to be criminal or corrupt. Legislative systems can easily be taken over by a tiny wealthy or powerful minority of the population, and they can end up passing laws criminalizing behaviors that the vast majority of the population don’t even consider to be crimes.
The entire purpose of having a jury is that it places the final power of guilt and innocence directly in the hands of the people. Juries are meant as a final line of defense against corrupt laws passed by a minority against the wishes of the greater majority. An unaccountable elite can pass whatever ridiculous self-serving laws they want. But if the common people simply refuse to uphold those laws in the jury box, those laws are meaningless.
THAT is the purpose of a jury. It is the only reason juries are worth the trouble. A bunch of rank amateurs will never be able to judge the facts of a case better than actual trained legal scholars with years of experience. But by empowering juries, it places the final authority of the law firmly in the hands of the people. That is the value of having a jury at all.
Jury nullification is not just some strange quirk or odd loophole in our justice system. It’s the entire reason we have juries in the first place."
Jury’s have kind of always been vibes. There’s plenty of black kids that got the guilty verdict and hung and later it was revealed to be the womans father or friend of the family that raped.
It is important to be more than a clockwork orange, understand the law but don’t apply it with such rigidity as to be devoid of morals or humanity.
I strongly disagree. Laws must be consistently applied.
To set aside the law prohibiting murder in a specific case just because you don’t like the victim is the antithesis of a fair and just legal system.
And how do you propose we ensure they are applied to the rich and those in power? Because until that happens they are being forced on the common man much more, as a weapon for those in power.
I don’t really follow you sorry.
I suppose wealthy murderers are probably less likely to get convicted due to better representation. I would’ve thought Luigi had pretty good representation given his gofundme.
Obviously in a vacuum laws should be consistently applied, but we are so so far from laws being consistently applied in the US where bad guys get away with literal murder, why be so upset with a loophole that let’s a good guy off for murder for once?
Cops and rich people murder every day and get away with it due to our legal system being broken. The time to put your foot down starts with them.
Laws consistently and rigidly applied out of context is how you get to fascist governments.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_rise_to_power
Nonsense. Laws may be consistently applied by racist governments but it’s the nature of those laws (luke ethnic cleansing) that makes them fascist.
He isn’t a threat to the public. No need to lock him up. Odds are good he won’t reoffend either.
You could say that about most murderers. Why not just abolish the prohibition on murder?
I have two arguments to defend jury nullification. First of all, in our system “jury nullification” is NOT a policy. It is the name for the inevitable fact to that members of a jury can decide to vote “innocent” without being subject to some kind of interrogation.
My second argument is this: I think jury nullification is actually a good policy, because the only thing it produces are delays unless fully 12 out of 12 randomly selected citizens think this application of the law is completely unfair. If the citizenry believes a law is unfair with that much unanimity it probably IS unfair.
Well, to your first point, jurors cannot be held accountable for their verdict. Obviously if they could the whole system breaks down. Jurors can exploit this protection to return a false verdict with impunity, but it is exactly that - false testament. Others will try to say that jury nullification is an intended feature of the legal system but IMO it’s just exploiting a limitation.
Secondly, you’re not talking about an unfair law, you’re talking about an unjust outcome. All laws will produce unjust outcomes in some specific circumstances. However a law against murder reduces more harm than it causes, so it’s worth upholding.
To me, the idea of having juries decide to set aside the law in cases they feel are unjust is an absurdity. Imagine if Trump were on trial and the jury unanimously returned not-guilty despite obvious guilt.
To be fair, both Biden and Trump set aside the law by not actually banning TikTok, so it makes sense that at least in some specific instances, normal people are allowed to as well.
No, that doesn’t make any sense at all.
Presidents are elected to weird ultimate power, and are intended to do so with the support of the best advice available.
A President is not a king. We fought a couple wars about it. We might fight another soon.
Why let only judges make the jokes then and not the people in the jury too?
Imho that’s a fairness in a sometimes unfair system.It’s really not a “fairness” because every case will be heard by different jurors with no legal experience.
The “fairness” you’re talking about will depend on the popularity of the accused.
Do you honestly believe Luigi would enjoy the support he has of he were an aging overweight bald guy?
At its core, jury nullification is about deciding cases based on the vibe.
I do believe that the perception of the action of which Luigi got accused weighes orders of magnitude more than the perception of his appearance or his popularity.
It’s not him who was popular in the first place.
It was what was done.
Accusing him of it in turn made him popular. That would’ve worked for other people too.That’s not the type of popularity I’m talking about.
Luigi is young, approachable, affable, and not unattractive. I don’t believe for a moment that someone without those qualities would enjoy any sympathy from a jury.
Full hearted agreement. Pretty privilege is an observable phenomenon and Luigi is a cutie.
Heck, you could even argue that sharing a name with one of the Mario Bros from Nintendo makes Luigi seem family-friendly, silly, and meme-able.
Either of which could explain a future where Luigi would be found innocent by jury nullification where an amorphous blob that represents every other possibility would be found guilty.
However, the only way to be sure is to test the hypothesis. So to all you scientists out there, go forth and collect more data points!
Not just that. He likely lowered their insurance premium as well.
Because judges have experience in law, and they have to stand by their decisions.
The judges in the USSC want to have a word with you.
Because that’s how lynch mobs got off without penalties too. It’s very much a case of being careful what you wish for in this case. If he gets off because the jury says it’s OK to gun someone down without direct provocation, you can bet that others will too. You shot a gay man for no reason? No problem, the jury says that’s fine. You shot someone you suspect of having sympathies for Democrats? Head home, the jury was packed with MAGAs.
Rich people and people in government already get away with this stuff. Our president is a felon. If people in power aren’t bound by the law then citizens will act. Only holding the people who act accountable is ensuring that the people in power never have consequences.
Well, given that jury nullification is a thing and considering how rarely it happens, I’d rather risk the scenarios outlined by you than having no way of giving a not guilty verdict to people this way who do something illegal but legitimate.
The court system is a joke already.
It always was
No. He’s going to die in prison. I’m not happy about that fact. I’m just telling the truth. Just like there’s zero chance Charles Manson ever gets out. There’s zero chance Luigi gets out.
Then slowed… then surged… then slowed… then surged… then slowed… then they had some orange juice and a muffin… and now they’re surging again.
