But that’s my point, you don’t need to have seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It adds character growth and is worth seeing, but if you skip it and only watch Endgame and Brave New World, he ends one as Captain America and starts the other as Captain America.
Additionally if there were any confusion, before Sam Wilson gets all suited up we watch a news anchor talk about Sam Wilson as Captain America, cut to a bar where Sam Wilson is called Cap and then the bartender repeats that the drink is on the house for Cap.
No one watched Spider-Man No Way Home and went, wait, when did Tony Stark die? Why is Peter so sad about Tony Stark?
I havent seen Brave New World yet, but Marvel movies really should start doing something in their intros to briefly show important moments in prequel movies
Sam Wilson: Only thing bumming me out is the fact that I have to live in a world without Captain America.
Steve Rogers: Oh. That reminds me…
[reaches under the bench and takes out his old Captain America shield]
Steve Rogers: Try it on.
[Sam stares a few moments in stunned silence, then slowly picks up the shield and puts it on]
Steve Rogers: How’s it feel?
Sam Wilson: Like it’s someone else’s.
Steve Rogers: It isn’t.
Sam Wilson: [deeply moved] Thank you. I’ll do my best.
Steve Rogers: That’s why it’s yours.
Where is the ambiguity? It’s not hand him the shield and then nothing. They have a conversation, if you watch the scene the camera hangs on Sam when he holds the shield. He is feeling the weight of this decision.
Look at the opening of Captain America Civil War. Wanda is fighting alongside Steve Rogers and Falcon. Is she an Avenger? I know at the end of Age of Ultron she turns against Ultron and then she is in the Avengers compound but the film cuts off before Steve says “Assemble”, he just says “Avengers…”. Civil War would have been a better film if, instead of the opening battle, Steve took Wanda aside and said, “Hey it’s cool that you’re an Avenger now.”
Would the solution have been for Brave New World to have a scene where the news reporter says," As everyone knows Steve Rogers famously handed the title of Captain America to Sam Wilson."?
I saw the movie, no reason to quote the scene. My point still stands.
What you quoted just shows the very beginning, the genesis, and doesn’t show the journey, which is what I believe Hideo Kojima was talking about. The journey.
If he cared that much about the journey, wouldn’t he follow it the whole way? Why is he complaining that, since he didn’t follow the story, he isn’t getting the whole story?
If he doesn’t want to watch all the little bits here and there, he doesn’t have to. There’s more than enough there to show where it was leading. If you want to see the how and why… watch the show. It’s not like it’s hidden away in a back room somewhere.
You would have to ask him, but I don’t think it’s realistic to force someone to have to see Falcon and Winter Soldier first, to understand the movie they’re actually going to see at that moment.
At the very least there should be a recap, that’s normally what they do in Hollywood, to bring viewers up to speed. Showing the origin story, even as a recap, would be helpful.
I literally just said you don’t have to watch it to understand. Just that you’d need to watch it to get the whole story. Which, if you’re interested in… you watch. If you’re not, you don’t. You aren’t missing anything crucial to watching the movie by missing the series.
Of course, if what you want to do is complain about Marvel content being significant, it provides an excellent starting point. Which seems to at least be what you want to do.
No, not complaining. Just trying to keep the goalposts from being moved, and responding to the one and only single point that I’m trying to make, why he would say what he did, a plausable reason why.
I’m definately not astroturfing, thats for sure. :)
But wouldn’t the journey of Sam Wilson be Captain America Winter Soldier, Captain America Civil War, Avengers Infinity War, & Avengers Endgame?
Sam doesn’t just suddenly show up in Endgame and get the shield. In fact he gets to make a fun Winter Soldier callback in Endgame by saying “on your left”.
If we want to make the argument that Falcon and the Winter Soldier should have been a film, that’s a fine argument to make. I think Sam is a better defined character as a result of that series, but I don’t think it’s required if you want to believe he is Captain America. Looking at just the films we see Sam’s journey.
Plus, if you’re looking for a Sam Wilson journey… That’s what Brave New World is. It tells the story of a non-super powered human, fighting in a world of super powered people.
You know the funniest thing about people arguing about this with you? If you had watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which I guess these people didn’t, you’d know that it starts out with him not being Captain America. He literally gives the shield up and because he doesn’t want to be Captain America. So the argument that he became Captain America because of the scene at the end of end game is literally not true. He wasn’t Captain America because of that scene he was Captain America because of the choices he makes at the end of the show.
If you didn’t watch the show, you don’t know Sam gave up the shield. You see him get the shield in Endgame, Steve tells him it suits him, then in the next movie, everybody calls him Cap. What do you need here? A connect-the-dot game? A coloring book?
So I’m confused your argument here is that if you don’t know what happened then you don’t know you’re wrong? What a silly line of reasoning. Imagine tying yourself into this kind of knot to defend the writing of a Marvel film. Lol.
I don’t think you know what your argument is. Someone who didn’t watch the show wouldn’t notice that something happened, the connection fits. You are using your knowledge of the show to point out that this connection is not the straight line it seems to be, but that’s not relevant, it doesn’t matter to the 2 movies. It’ll matter in Thunderbolts with John’s own story, but not here. The show is extra information with its own story, which is nice, but it’s not critical.
Imagine working so hard to find a plot hole in something you hate. You’re overthinking things.
My only argument was that it was silly you people were getting all bent out of shape about something when your point was literally the opposite of the reality. The scene in end game is not Sam becoming Captain America. You’re making bad faith arguments. Which is funny. That’s the only argument I ever made. Your comments have just compounded the silliness of the situation.
Also never even suggested I hated the shows. So don’t know where you pulled that straw man out of.
But that’s my point, you don’t need to have seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It adds character growth and is worth seeing, but if you skip it and only watch Endgame and Brave New World, he ends one as Captain America and starts the other as Captain America.
Additionally if there were any confusion, before Sam Wilson gets all suited up we watch a news anchor talk about Sam Wilson as Captain America, cut to a bar where Sam Wilson is called Cap and then the bartender repeats that the drink is on the house for Cap.
No one watched Spider-Man No Way Home and went, wait, when did Tony Stark die? Why is Peter so sad about Tony Stark?
I havent seen Brave New World yet, but Marvel movies really should start doing something in their intros to briefly show important moments in prequel movies
But he’s just handed a shield, and nothing more, at the end of Endgame.
That just shows a beginning, and the new movie shows an end, but nothing in between is shown, unless you’ve seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
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Pulling the scene from IMDB,
Sam Wilson: Only thing bumming me out is the fact that I have to live in a world without Captain America.
Steve Rogers: Oh. That reminds me…
[reaches under the bench and takes out his old Captain America shield]
Steve Rogers: Try it on.
[Sam stares a few moments in stunned silence, then slowly picks up the shield and puts it on]
Steve Rogers: How’s it feel?
Sam Wilson: Like it’s someone else’s.
Steve Rogers: It isn’t.
Sam Wilson: [deeply moved] Thank you. I’ll do my best.
Steve Rogers: That’s why it’s yours.
Where is the ambiguity? It’s not hand him the shield and then nothing. They have a conversation, if you watch the scene the camera hangs on Sam when he holds the shield. He is feeling the weight of this decision.
Look at the opening of Captain America Civil War. Wanda is fighting alongside Steve Rogers and Falcon. Is she an Avenger? I know at the end of Age of Ultron she turns against Ultron and then she is in the Avengers compound but the film cuts off before Steve says “Assemble”, he just says “Avengers…”. Civil War would have been a better film if, instead of the opening battle, Steve took Wanda aside and said, “Hey it’s cool that you’re an Avenger now.”
Would the solution have been for Brave New World to have a scene where the news reporter says," As everyone knows Steve Rogers famously handed the title of Captain America to Sam Wilson."?
The only thing missing is a literal torch to pass.
Smh at what anime will do to a motherfucker. There’s nothing wrong with expecting the audience to read between the lines
I saw the movie, no reason to quote the scene. My point still stands.
What you quoted just shows the very beginning, the genesis, and doesn’t show the journey, which is what I believe Hideo Kojima was talking about. The journey.
This comment is licensed under CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
If he cared that much about the journey, wouldn’t he follow it the whole way? Why is he complaining that, since he didn’t follow the story, he isn’t getting the whole story?
If he doesn’t want to watch all the little bits here and there, he doesn’t have to. There’s more than enough there to show where it was leading. If you want to see the how and why… watch the show. It’s not like it’s hidden away in a back room somewhere.
You would have to ask him, but I don’t think it’s realistic to force someone to have to see Falcon and Winter Soldier first, to understand the movie they’re actually going to see at that moment.
At the very least there should be a recap, that’s normally what they do in Hollywood, to bring viewers up to speed. Showing the origin story, even as a recap, would be helpful.
This comment is licensed under CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
I literally just said you don’t have to watch it to understand. Just that you’d need to watch it to get the whole story. Which, if you’re interested in… you watch. If you’re not, you don’t. You aren’t missing anything crucial to watching the movie by missing the series.
Of course, if what you want to do is complain about Marvel content being significant, it provides an excellent starting point. Which seems to at least be what you want to do.
No, not complaining. Just trying to keep the goalposts from being moved, and responding to the one and only single point that I’m trying to make, why he would say what he did, a plausable reason why.
I’m definately not astroturfing, thats for sure. :)
This comment is licensed under CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
But wouldn’t the journey of Sam Wilson be Captain America Winter Soldier, Captain America Civil War, Avengers Infinity War, & Avengers Endgame?
Sam doesn’t just suddenly show up in Endgame and get the shield. In fact he gets to make a fun Winter Soldier callback in Endgame by saying “on your left”.
If we want to make the argument that Falcon and the Winter Soldier should have been a film, that’s a fine argument to make. I think Sam is a better defined character as a result of that series, but I don’t think it’s required if you want to believe he is Captain America. Looking at just the films we see Sam’s journey.
Plus, if you’re looking for a Sam Wilson journey… That’s what Brave New World is. It tells the story of a non-super powered human, fighting in a world of super powered people.
You know the funniest thing about people arguing about this with you? If you had watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which I guess these people didn’t, you’d know that it starts out with him not being Captain America. He literally gives the shield up and because he doesn’t want to be Captain America. So the argument that he became Captain America because of the scene at the end of end game is literally not true. He wasn’t Captain America because of that scene he was Captain America because of the choices he makes at the end of the show.
If you didn’t watch the show, you don’t know Sam gave up the shield. You see him get the shield in Endgame, Steve tells him it suits him, then in the next movie, everybody calls him Cap. What do you need here? A connect-the-dot game? A coloring book?
So I’m confused your argument here is that if you don’t know what happened then you don’t know you’re wrong? What a silly line of reasoning. Imagine tying yourself into this kind of knot to defend the writing of a Marvel film. Lol.
I don’t think you know what your argument is. Someone who didn’t watch the show wouldn’t notice that something happened, the connection fits. You are using your knowledge of the show to point out that this connection is not the straight line it seems to be, but that’s not relevant, it doesn’t matter to the 2 movies. It’ll matter in Thunderbolts with John’s own story, but not here. The show is extra information with its own story, which is nice, but it’s not critical.
Imagine working so hard to find a plot hole in something you hate. You’re overthinking things.
My only argument was that it was silly you people were getting all bent out of shape about something when your point was literally the opposite of the reality. The scene in end game is not Sam becoming Captain America. You’re making bad faith arguments. Which is funny. That’s the only argument I ever made. Your comments have just compounded the silliness of the situation.
Also never even suggested I hated the shows. So don’t know where you pulled that straw man out of.
Yep. Its just astroturfers being overly sensitive and defensive, since the movie has opened recently.