• curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 day ago

    Yes, a prosecutor presents evidence to convince a jury to go to trial. They have to influence the jury to agree.

    Defense’s part comes at the trial.

    The expression “a grand jury could indict a ham sandwich” is a nod to the fact that, often, a grand jury votes in the direction the prosecutor wants them to.

    Because they usually bring sufficient evidence, and the jury is only deciding if there is sufficient evidence to move forward. This doesnt decide guilt.

    There are plenty of things to complain about when it comes to the US “justice” system. Grand jury decisions aren’t remotely the problematic part.

    • LilB0kChoy
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      1 day ago

      That’s not true at all.

      Opening paragraph:

      Within weeks of each other in 2014, a grand jury in Ferguson, Missouri, and another in Staten Island, New York, both declined to indict police officers in the deaths of unarmed black men: Ferguson’s eighteen-year-old Michael Brown and New York’s forty-three-year-old Eric Garner.Nationwide protests involving thousands erupted in the wake of the grand juries’ decisions. The protests fostered widespread criticism of the institution of the grand jury, prompting calls for its abolition as part of broader criminal justice reform. But federal and state grand juries have long been the subject of immense criticism from scholars, defense attorneys, and activists.The recent controversies merely drew public attention to flaws in the grand jury system that had been there all along.

      • curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 day ago

        I’d personally say cops, prosecutors going for the easy win, the structure around plea bargains, judges made by selection, judges elected with no knowledge or experience required, etc, play far bigger roles in the problems with the system of justice, but sure.

        • LilB0kChoy
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          1 day ago

          Grand jury decisions aren’t remotely the problematic part.

          This is wrong and it’s what I responded to.

          A grand jury refusing to indict might mean the evidence wasn’t sufficient or it might mean the prosecutor didn’t really want an indictment.

          I’d personally say cops, prosecutors going for the easy win, the structure around plea bargains, judges made by selection, judges elected with no knowledge or experience required, etc, play far bigger roles in the problems with the system of justice, but sure.

          Personally I’d say the issue with the US justice system is that it’s a system full of problems and Americans seem to think ranking them is more important than addressing all of them.

          None of these problems has a “bigger role” than the others because if you fix one the system is still broken. This is just one representation of the endemic issues within the US system of government.

          • curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 day ago

            “Don’t fix anything because so much is broken” and “All problems are of the same importance” are not, and will never be, philosophies I subscribe to.

            You do you bud.

            • LilB0kChoy
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              1 day ago

              I didn’t say “don’t fix anything because so much is broken” so it seems like you do subscribe to it since you brought it up.

              I’m just trying to keep up with you moving the goalposts. First it was “grand juries aren’t remotely the problematic part” to “they’re not the biggest problem”.

              You asked why I commented originally, I explained, then refuted you with a source. Don’t get mad at me for your own spurious claim.

              • curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 day ago

                By comparison to the other issues they arent remotely problematic.

                Nothing i said is contradictory, so you can cut that crap now.

                Edit:

                Annnnddd…

                Americans seem to think ranking them is more important than addressing all of them.

                None of these problems has a “bigger role” than the others because if you fix one the system is still broken.

                Yeah you did.

                • LilB0kChoy
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                  1 day ago

                  No I didn’t. If you fix one the system is still broken, meaning one cannot have a “bigger role” as they all cause a failure in the US justice system. You have to fix all of the issues. Of course you have to start somewhere but that starting point is subjective.

                  Nothing i said is contradictory, so you can cut that crap now.

                  Contradictory by definition means inconsistent and going from “not remotely” to “not as big a role” is inconsistent. “Not remotely” means not at all and “not as big a role” is inconsistent with “not at all”.

                  • curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    24 hours ago

                    You have to fix all of the issues.

                    Yeah, dont bother fixing it at all unless you can fix everything. So… Exactly what I said you said?

                    “Not remotely” means not at all and “not as big a role”

                    Depends on the scale.

                    And considering things can be brought back in front of a grand jury because its not a criminal trial, yeah, its basically nothing by comparison as a problem.

                    Say more bullshit about moving goalposts and I’ll just go ahead and block.