Cooperation by force is inherintly unstable. As soon as the deal is unfair, which is pretty much guranteed if it is by force, the moment the misstreated party can exit it, it will. This becomes a problem as soon as the enviroment for a larger group changes and a lot of people can exit unfair deals.
So in the real world sueing somebody is pretty rarer. The real punishment is a bad reputation and as soon as you have one, you are in trouble, because people are not going to cooperate with you anymore. The only way you can cheat and get away with it is by force and the only way that works, if there is a forced hierachy, with some having access to force, whereas others do not.
I would say something like the internet, which is run on free software and using standards a lot of people just agree on freely, is a perfect example of how these typey of systems can work. Most of the development was done by small groups and people just adopted it, because it was usefull.
I don’t think you understand what the nature of coercion is.
Think of a futures contract: I agree to buy something from you for some price at a later date. But when that date approaches, I decide the deal is no longer in my favour, so I decide not to do it. There is nobody able to coerce my compliance.
Suppose you sign a deal with a company to buy a product with a 5-year warranty. The product breaks after three years but the company refuses to honour the warranty. There is no regulatory agency to force their compliance. Even more, if the problem gets big enough, they can close the company, secretly move the assets and start back up again. There is no government apparatus powerful enough to stop this if the company is willing to devote enough resources to keep it secret. Remember the United Fruit Company? The one that overthrew Central American governments and created literal banana republics? They’re now called Chiquita, and you can still find (and probably have bought) many of their products in grocery stores everywhere!
“Reputation” is worthless in the corporate world. You can suppress a million small complaints. Word-of-mouth marketing is utterly powerless against large syndicated PR campaigns. In the real world, Wells Fargo opened millions of fraudulent accounts in their customers’ names to earn hundreds of millions of dollars in fees. They gained a bad reputation but people still kept using their services. What stopped them was when the US Consumer Financial Protection Bureau issued a billion-dollar fine and took legal action against them. The idea that reputation and the free market alone will keep people honest is completely unfounded, and this is the folly of any “anarchist” system.
Or consider an insurance company. A hurricane comes through and wipes out a hundred thousand policyholders’ houses that the insurance company must now pay out on. 100,000 × $50,000 = $5,000,000,000. Hmm. Maybe just better to hire a PR firm for a million dollars and default on all the policies. Or even just close up shop and distribute the assets to shareholders.
So then nobody gets insurance.
The Internet wouldn’t have developed under an anarchist system. Think of just the process of manufacturing a computer. All the different parts come from every part of the world. The computer chips come from Taiwan, the parts are then assembled in China, plastics from Vietnam, engineered by people in the United States. Suppose you need to deliver finished computers to someone in Germany. Think of all the procedural hurdles you’d have to go through, and then think of how many more interactions you’d have to make under your proposed system. The more interactions, the higher the cost. The higher the cost, the less profitable it is. Oh, and don’t forget you can’t do shit if anyone you sign a contract with backs out at the last minute. It’s not impossible, but the increased difficulty will make the administrative burden so high it’ll be unprofitable.
And what makes governments trustworthy? In the real world democracies tend to do a much better job at being trustworthy then dictatorships. That is due to being controlled by the people by regular votes. The more direct democracy is allowed the more trustworthy the organization becomes. So it is no wonder that capitalist companies, which are in many cases very close to dictatroships, behave as badly as they do and you feel that you need the protection from a more democratic institution. Lets not even pretend that in countries like China or Vietnam judges can not be bought. It is rather simply trust that the other company makes good on its promise as it is long term benefital for both of them to do so.
Which is why the idea of anarcho-syndicalism is to form small scale units producing something and acting as a political organization called syndicates. Those can be joined freely and are organized in a democratic fashion. To get even bigger, those syndicates then send representatives to other syndicates to form federations. Those are made up of all sorts of syndicates working together with free agreement between each other. This also allows for enforcing the agreements between the syndicates as, if one is broken other syndicates will kick your syndicate out of the federation or a lot of them, will just treat them differently as punishment. It depends on the situation obviously.
The key here is to avoid having a proper hierachy, but use free and open deals between the different syndicates, but due to the mass of it, it becomes hard to fully ignore your free contracts. So reputation would absolutly matter.
The Internet wouldn’t have developed under an anarchist system. Think of just the process of manufacturing a computer. All the different parts come from every part of the world. The computer chips come from Taiwan, the parts are then assembled in China, plastics from Vietnam, engineered by people in the United States.
You shouldn’t be taking that for granted, but asking “why do they come from different countries?”.
The answer? For historical reasons - because that’s where capital found cheap labour with a tolerable infrastructure and convenient legislation at a certain time period.
If the goal is to imagine an anarchist society, Taiwan is not the memory factory of the world, and China isn’t the consumer electronics factory of the world. It’s perfectly feasible to make microchips everywhere and assemble them into systems too.
If the world being imagined doesn’t favour (via laws that protect investment) investing huge sums of money overseas - outsourcing won’t happen.
As for computers, the first programmable computer existed in ancient Greece (as a toy, of course). You could program a robot’s driving movements using knotted rope. :) Charles Babbage designed a mechanical computer in the 1800s, which Ada Lovelace wrote the first programs for. Alas, it didn’t work - due to the limits of Victorian era manufacturing. Konrad Zuse designed computers using relays, and they worked. Computers are a thing that sooner or later appear, once need for automation and capability to manufacture components has arisen. Networking computers doesn’t take an anarchist or hierarchist to figure out - it takes an engineer and coder to figure out.
Without postulating that in anarchy, engineers don’t exist, mathematics doesn’t exist, or coders won’t exist once engineers build programmable computers… it’s on very thin ice to say that an Internet can’t exist.
The internet is a great example of how in free systems, might makes right. Google has been and is currently changing open systems to proprietary ones, and forcing their will upon millions of smaller internet sites. Without a centralized governing body, everyone is powerless to stop them.
Cooperation by force is inherintly unstable. As soon as the deal is unfair, which is pretty much guranteed if it is by force, the moment the misstreated party can exit it, it will. This becomes a problem as soon as the enviroment for a larger group changes and a lot of people can exit unfair deals.
So in the real world sueing somebody is pretty rarer. The real punishment is a bad reputation and as soon as you have one, you are in trouble, because people are not going to cooperate with you anymore. The only way you can cheat and get away with it is by force and the only way that works, if there is a forced hierachy, with some having access to force, whereas others do not.
I would say something like the internet, which is run on free software and using standards a lot of people just agree on freely, is a perfect example of how these typey of systems can work. Most of the development was done by small groups and people just adopted it, because it was usefull.
I don’t think you understand what the nature of coercion is.
Think of a futures contract: I agree to buy something from you for some price at a later date. But when that date approaches, I decide the deal is no longer in my favour, so I decide not to do it. There is nobody able to coerce my compliance.
Suppose you sign a deal with a company to buy a product with a 5-year warranty. The product breaks after three years but the company refuses to honour the warranty. There is no regulatory agency to force their compliance. Even more, if the problem gets big enough, they can close the company, secretly move the assets and start back up again. There is no government apparatus powerful enough to stop this if the company is willing to devote enough resources to keep it secret. Remember the United Fruit Company? The one that overthrew Central American governments and created literal banana republics? They’re now called Chiquita, and you can still find (and probably have bought) many of their products in grocery stores everywhere!
“Reputation” is worthless in the corporate world. You can suppress a million small complaints. Word-of-mouth marketing is utterly powerless against large syndicated PR campaigns. In the real world, Wells Fargo opened millions of fraudulent accounts in their customers’ names to earn hundreds of millions of dollars in fees. They gained a bad reputation but people still kept using their services. What stopped them was when the US Consumer Financial Protection Bureau issued a billion-dollar fine and took legal action against them. The idea that reputation and the free market alone will keep people honest is completely unfounded, and this is the folly of any “anarchist” system.
Or consider an insurance company. A hurricane comes through and wipes out a hundred thousand policyholders’ houses that the insurance company must now pay out on. 100,000 × $50,000 = $5,000,000,000. Hmm. Maybe just better to hire a PR firm for a million dollars and default on all the policies. Or even just close up shop and distribute the assets to shareholders.
So then nobody gets insurance.
The Internet wouldn’t have developed under an anarchist system. Think of just the process of manufacturing a computer. All the different parts come from every part of the world. The computer chips come from Taiwan, the parts are then assembled in China, plastics from Vietnam, engineered by people in the United States. Suppose you need to deliver finished computers to someone in Germany. Think of all the procedural hurdles you’d have to go through, and then think of how many more interactions you’d have to make under your proposed system. The more interactions, the higher the cost. The higher the cost, the less profitable it is. Oh, and don’t forget you can’t do shit if anyone you sign a contract with backs out at the last minute. It’s not impossible, but the increased difficulty will make the administrative burden so high it’ll be unprofitable.
And what makes governments trustworthy? In the real world democracies tend to do a much better job at being trustworthy then dictatorships. That is due to being controlled by the people by regular votes. The more direct democracy is allowed the more trustworthy the organization becomes. So it is no wonder that capitalist companies, which are in many cases very close to dictatroships, behave as badly as they do and you feel that you need the protection from a more democratic institution. Lets not even pretend that in countries like China or Vietnam judges can not be bought. It is rather simply trust that the other company makes good on its promise as it is long term benefital for both of them to do so.
Which is why the idea of anarcho-syndicalism is to form small scale units producing something and acting as a political organization called syndicates. Those can be joined freely and are organized in a democratic fashion. To get even bigger, those syndicates then send representatives to other syndicates to form federations. Those are made up of all sorts of syndicates working together with free agreement between each other. This also allows for enforcing the agreements between the syndicates as, if one is broken other syndicates will kick your syndicate out of the federation or a lot of them, will just treat them differently as punishment. It depends on the situation obviously.
The key here is to avoid having a proper hierachy, but use free and open deals between the different syndicates, but due to the mass of it, it becomes hard to fully ignore your free contracts. So reputation would absolutly matter.
You shouldn’t be taking that for granted, but asking “why do they come from different countries?”.
The answer? For historical reasons - because that’s where capital found cheap labour with a tolerable infrastructure and convenient legislation at a certain time period.
If the goal is to imagine an anarchist society, Taiwan is not the memory factory of the world, and China isn’t the consumer electronics factory of the world. It’s perfectly feasible to make microchips everywhere and assemble them into systems too.
If the world being imagined doesn’t favour (via laws that protect investment) investing huge sums of money overseas - outsourcing won’t happen.
As for computers, the first programmable computer existed in ancient Greece (as a toy, of course). You could program a robot’s driving movements using knotted rope. :) Charles Babbage designed a mechanical computer in the 1800s, which Ada Lovelace wrote the first programs for. Alas, it didn’t work - due to the limits of Victorian era manufacturing. Konrad Zuse designed computers using relays, and they worked. Computers are a thing that sooner or later appear, once need for automation and capability to manufacture components has arisen. Networking computers doesn’t take an anarchist or hierarchist to figure out - it takes an engineer and coder to figure out.
Without postulating that in anarchy, engineers don’t exist, mathematics doesn’t exist, or coders won’t exist once engineers build programmable computers… it’s on very thin ice to say that an Internet can’t exist.
The internet is a great example of how in free systems, might makes right. Google has been and is currently changing open systems to proprietary ones, and forcing their will upon millions of smaller internet sites. Without a centralized governing body, everyone is powerless to stop them.