First off, I don’t base my views on “what Americans are like” with what people post online. Just about everyone I know personally has just gone off the deep end it seems.

People I’ve known for decades who were “right of center” have now drifted to the far right. Where they used to support separation of church and state, small government, etc. they now want the government to tax the poor, establish a Christian ethnostate, and are openly talking about “the coming revolution”. Meanwhile, most everyone I’ve known who is leftist wants the government to disarm them, claims to be pro-LGBT but blindly supports any Muslim country and blindly hates Israel, and thinks Joe Biden is the “greatest president EVAR”.

Am I just in a weird bubble where 95% of the people in my life are politically and philosophically dipshits? Does anyone else experience this with people they actually know? I feel like I’m going crazy when I can be talking with a “leftist” about trans rights in Texas and then the very next conversation is about how wholesome they think the average Palestinian is in Gaza. Is there anyone else who’s at least left of center and recognizes that religious zealots in the Middle East want to kill you and shouldn’t be supported and religious zealots in YOUR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY want to kill you and you shouldn’t disarm yourself?

Just what the fuck is going on in this country? There’s so much disinformation and paid trolls that I don’t base these views off what’s online. I just run into the exact same lunacy with nearly everyone I’ve known my whole life.

  • PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
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    1 year ago

    American here.

    Uhhh…I’m not really sure who you’re talking to on the American left about Joe Biden, but few people really like him as a president, despite his effectiveness.

    Also, do you understand why 95% of the people in your life believe what they do? It’s easy to call people stupid when you don’t understand where they’re coming from.

      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You HAVE to understand wherre they’re coming from, because that’s EXACTLY how you fight against useful idiots.

        Most of the people you will talk to are NOT experts in … well, anything political at LEAST. If you start condemning people for something they probably haven’t even thought that deeply about, then you are just as guilty as them of ignoring nuance.

        If you’re going to condemn people for the natural conclusions of their ignorant actions, then you should be for trying children as adults who accidentally shot a family member. After all, it’s about consequences, not intent, right?

      • PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        I don’t need to understand where they’re coming from

        Why does everyone think this? Because you’re wrong. Everybody is wrong about this. 100% of people that believe they don’t need to understand the epistemology of people they disagree with, and especially of people they hate, need to pull their head out of their asses.

        People who voted Hillary because “it was her turn!” or even voted Obama because “I feel bad for black people, so he needed to be president no matter what” (those are literal fucking quotes, I shit you not).

        These people are dumb. Period.

        the very next topic of conversation can be about how they don’t trust themselves with a gun and are offended at the suggestion that they should arm themselves.

        Yeah, I don’t trust myself with a gun. I would definitely shoot someone in a road rage incident, which are becoming increasingly common. Or I might commit suicide because this country makes me so fucking depressed.

          • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Sounds like you’re talking to koolaid drinkers and religious, not the politically motivated. Only religious morons and the painfully immature treat “the truth” as an absolute thing you know or don’t know. ESPECIALLY in politics, where EVERY choice has positive and negative consequences to balance.

            Trying to get an informed political opinion from a religious zealot is about as useful as getting your calculus homework finished by toddlers…

              • Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                They’ve been through years of programming fed to them by professionals. As just some schmuck that doesn’t understand their beliefs, you’ll never be able to undo what has been done. It’s sad, but they need a LOT more than “Wait. You mean Trump REALLY DID LIE?!? I had no idea! This changes everything!”

                  • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    You should know that a religious upbringing comes with HEAVY emphasis on faith. By the time you hit adulthood still believing in things with ZERO evidence … how do you expect those people to be able to discern truth!? They’ve spent their lives ignoring truth in favor of faith…

                    and you wonder why they believe nonsensical things… They can be good people who still don’t know a fucking thing about politics except what they heard on Fox, which absolutely will have them spouting hate.

                    All they need are words to give them confidance in repeating it. Not facts to back it up. Their faith will make them think their misguided confidance is truth.

          • catreadingabook@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            First of all, nice bait, looks delicious, think I’ll chow down.

            I think this because I’ve spent over a decade of my life trying to understand where people come from and getting nowhere with helping them.

            This mindset sounds closer to the problem than to the solution. Do you truly believe that the best way to interact with an extremist is to blindly judge them, then assume that they will question their entire worldview because one person, who has made no good faith effort to understand them, decides to call them names?

            Many extremists, though perhaps not most, feel the way they do because they honestly believe they are doing the right thing. They listen to the lived experiences of people they trust and discount the words of people they do not. The blind judgment of others only ‘proves’ to them that it’s all one big conspiracy, everyone else are sheep, and that they are the only ones who can think for themselves.

      • bstix@feddit.dk
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        1 year ago

        I don’t know if you necessarily have to understand them, but you should still ask them about it, just to make them think about it.

        Lots of people form their opinions out of their ass without ever being confronted with why they have hat opinion.

        You don’t have to like these people, but you do need to co-exist. That’ll be difficult if they are allowed to dig themselves into their trenches without any resistance until they start flinging shit at each other.

        The only way to avoid it getting worse is to engage in dialogue and keep questioning them. Don’t argue, don’t tell them what is right or wrong, just keep asking “why do you think that?”

        • bundes_sheep@lemmy.one
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          1 year ago

          The other side of that coin is to allow people to question your beliefs and to actually think about things when they do.

          Those two things together is what will really help, imo.

          • bstix@feddit.dk
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            1 year ago

            They will ask eventually. I just don’t want to force anything on anyone

            I believe that it is impossible to teach anyone anything, but it is possible for anyone to learn anything.

            Understanding happens when someone thinks and reaches out.

          • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            If a leftist cannot explain to you the reasonings behind their stances… They are a TERRIBLE leftist. Are you sure you’ve actually talked to people?!

          • bstix@feddit.dk
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            1 year ago

            Those are good answers. Not for understanding, but because it shows that they admittedly don’t really know, so they’ll now have to think about it.

            It would be tempting to keep questioning why they believe in the bible or believe in something they don’t know, but that would likely only result in them getting angry and potentially digging further into their trench.

            Don’t push them. You’ve already sown the first seed. Just step back and let them think. Maybe address the issue a while later and hear if they’ve become more open to alternative takes on the issue. That’s the entire point.

      • arthurpizza@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        they don’t trust themselves with a gun and are offended at the suggestion that they should arm themselves.

        This feels like satire.