This has been discussed before, but with the recent news regarding Belicheck being possibly fired (which blows my mind) and Josh McDaniels getting fired (again), it bears repeating.
Bill Belicheck - he’s 87-97 after Tom Brady left.
Charlie Weis - he went 35-27 as the head coach of Notre Dame and 6-22 at Kansas in college after leaving NE. His one year as Florida’s offensive coordinator in 2010 his offense was 102nd.
Josh McDaniels - He went 11-17 as head coach of the Broncos, and 20-33 as head coach of the Raiders after he left NE.
Bill O’Brien - He went 15-9 as Penn State’s head coach, then 52-48 as Houston Texans’ head coach after leaving NE. He did make it the college national championship game with Alabama in 2021 but lost to Georgia.
Romeo Crennel - yes, he’s on the defensive side. However, he went 24-40 as Cleveland’s head coach after leaving New England, then went 4-15 as Kansas City’s head coach and 4-8 as Houston Texans’ head coach.
Eric Mangini - yes, another defensive guy. However, he went 23-25 as the Jets’ head coach after leaving New England and then 10-22 as the Brown’s head coach.
Bill Walsh was 17-23-1 without Joe Montana.
Clearly Bill Walsh was a fraud who was exposed without Montana.
Sorry while I do view Brady as the GOAT QB I don’t think he was that much better than his contemporaries such as Manning and Rodgers. Him winning way more SBs than those guys must be in part because of BB’s greatness.
Yeah, I’ve always wondered how other great QBs would play if they could rely on great coaching and execution in everyy phase of the game. Rodgers had like one or two top ten defenses and Brady had like 19. I still think Brady would be the best in Brady’s situation, and that’s why it’s so many Superbowls.
My question for all the people who think that Tom Brady is solely responsible for the Patriots success is, what is the worst HC that he could have carried to six rings, then?
Like, does Brady make Jeff Fisher a 6 time champion? Mike McCarthy? Marvin Lewis? How about Romeo Crennel or Pat Shurmur? Because I’m pretty sure the answer is a resounding “no” to any of those.
Belichick hasn’t been “exposed”. He’s gone from the greatest QB of all time to a mediocre and likely bust QB who lacks mental toughness and good decision making, in a league where it is now very difficult to win without a top half QB on a consistent basis. He’s also 20+ years into his career and likely has fallen off. I am very comfortable saying Belichick is nowhere near as good as he once was, but anyone who believes that you make nine Superbowls and nearly twice as many AFC Championship games on the back of a single player is, frankly, a fool.
The main points I have read with quoted contributions from Welker, Gronkowski, and Edelman was that Brady was a player coach on the field and held everyone on offense accountable. He put together off season sessions as well as in season extra practices to keep the offense running. This left Belichick to focus more on the defense and special teams. They could adapt on both sides of the ball quickly because each side had a taskmaster to keep them headed in the right direction.
Look, I’d be the angel at the top of the hater club on that team up near Boston
Chungus doesn’t get to 1/4 of the superbowls at least without the former HC of Cleveland prior to their move to Baltimore
You cannot look at those Texans playoff rosters and tell me BoB is a bad coach. He also brought stability to a Penn State program in desperate need of leadership after the Paterno scandal. I’m not calling him Bill Parcels but he is a good competent coach that has found success outside of Brady.
Can we stop with the moron nonsense from people under 30 when it comes to Bellichek? He was winning super bowls as a DC before you were born.
Tom Brady threw 1 TD pass the entire postseason the first time the Patriots won the Super Bowl.
Bellichek is a great coach - he’s just old now and needs to retire (although he can still scheme up a defense)
Do you idiots think Bill Walsh wasn’t any good because he had Montana?
Maybe Phil Jackson wasn’t that great and only won because he had MJ and Kobe and any scrub coach could have threepeated (despite the fact that no other coach has done it post merger)
LMAO
Phil Jackson was an embarrassment on the Knicks
Also is Mack Jones considered a competent QB? I bet if you have BB a Jared Goff or Justin Herbert to work with he’d be way better than he is now.
Also Patriots have never been as good without Dante Scarnecchia.
I think the bigger point being is that Belichick’s coaching style only works in a specific situation where he is able to criticize the QB and have everyone fall into line. He needs a specific balance of solid players w/ a specialized mindset that works within Belichicks system; whereas, other coaching staff trees are able to succeed more because they don’t follow such a rigid system.
You’re right that Brady only threw 1 TD pass in 2001, but you forget to mention that the team under Belichick went 5-15 before Brady took over and was ranked last in the league when Brady took over in 2001. Not saying he willed his team to go 14-3 the rest of the season, but he played better than a former PB QB in Bledsoe under Belichick’s coaching. Additionally, in the playoffs Brady played in a Blizzard against the Raiders, was hit below the knee and had to leave the game after spraining his ankle against the Steelers (a play that would be called roughing the passer in todays game), and then came back 1 week later (due to 9/11) with the sprained ankle and through no mistakes and clutch play was able to help his team win. That first SB run demonstrated Belichick’s genius as a defensive play caller, but Brady was able to improve upon the offensive system that was failing before he started.
Also, you bring up his DC super bowls, but fail to mention he had Lawrence Taylor (the greatest defensive player of all time). Now regardless, that 1986 playoff run was probably one of the most dominant defensive performances in the history of the NFL, but the point still stands. Belichick is an amazing defensive coach, probably the best of all time in my opinion because he can make players like J.C. Jackson, Kyle Van Noy, Jaime Collins, etc. look like PB players. But Offensively, he has rarely been able to lead a team with an above average offense without Brady except for 1994 and 2021 (2/10 seasons w/out brady). These 2 seasons are the only seasons where his offensive SRS was ranked above average. All 19 seasons with Brady they ranked above average in OSRS.
Regarding your Walsh theory: I agree that Walsh was helped immensely by Montana, but we don’t know what kind of coach he would have become without Montana. We do know that when he was the head Coach of Stanford he Brought them to Bowl wins 3/5 seasons. For Phil Jackson, you could say that is the case to an extent, but again we never saw him be a head coach without Jordan, Pippen, O’neal, or Kobe not on his teams. However, we can see that with Belichick. TBH we could say Belichick is very similar to Jackson regarding their GM capabilities.
Bill Belichick the coach going 27-31 without Brady should be praised considering the horrible job Bill Belichick the GM has done
You should add belichick’s pats record (5-13) before brady became the starter. This was with drew bledsoe, who went on to make the pro bowl 2 years later.
The pats immediately went 11-3 after brady came in.
Exactly.
Didn’t realize Tommy boy was such a defensive genius.
Why can’t they both get credit for being part of a dynasty?
Bill O’Brien took over a Penn State program facing extreme sanctions due to the Sandusky fallout. Using his record at Penn State as any kind of proof that he was exposed without Brady isn’t fair to him.
👍 correct. I’ve been saying this for three years.