The temerity to repeat ‘soon’ for well over a year is one of Valve’s worst traits. One wonders if reflexively lying to customers is intentionally baked into their culture.
This right here is why they do like one interview a year, lmao.
What he actually said was “I hope [it will be soon]”, but for whatever reason people’s reading comprehension skills go out the window whenever there is a Valve interview.
The reading of his intention is plain; regardless my curiosity stems from a similar interview that was issued before the Deck launched and not this particular conversation.
Back then advising “not anytime soon” would have set a fair expectation but Valve chose to serve pablum and continues to do so regardless of the number of interviews/communications that have been released in the past year alone.
I spent a few minutes going over old interviews and didn’t find anything insinuating that would be “soon”. Most I could find was:
We actually want to work with them to make sure that, if they want to use SteamOS or offer a SteamOS based alternative, that can be done
Once it’s widely available, not only are we excited to see other manufacturers making their own handheld PC gaming devices, we’re excited to see people make their own SteamOS machines which could include small PCs that they put next to their TV
I think it’s pretty silly to expect Valve to release SteamOS when it doesn’t even have a (immutable) package manager, among many other missing features.
Two years ago Valve advised it would be generally available shortly after launch. I find it less silly to expect a company to shoot straight with the consumer than it is to apologize on their behalf (parasocial creatures though we may be.)
Honestly, what would you get out of SteamOS on PC anyway? Just install Linux, set up the drivers you need, launch Steam at startup, and default it to Big Picture Mode.
In what way? Sure… If you compare just big picture mode to an entire OS, but that’s hardly what was meant.
My desktop with endeavour OS and SteamDeck can do all the same things… In fact doing some things on the deck is more tricky because it’s limited to installing flatpaks.
In fact doing some things on the deck is more tricky because it’s limited to installing flatpaks.
That’s the advantage. A PC with a layer on top is a PC with a layer on top. It still wants you to have a mouse and keyboard. You still have to update it like a normal desktop PC.
Steam OS is controller and controller only. It’s a no bullshit durable system designed to be put on a box and just leave it that way.
You can do the same things, but I’m not putting a norma lLinux box running steam under my TV.
Except SteamOS is also just “a linux box running steam”… A PC with a layer on top. The only differences I’m hearing you wanting is immutability, and discrete version updates instead of a bunch of package upgrades. There are several immutable distros, and updates can be made painless in a variety of ways.
The SteamOS UI is big picture mode now. Since some update or other, the old big picture mode from SteamOS 1.0 got updated to the SteamDeck UI for desktop as well.
Except SteamOS is also just “a linux box running steam”
You can basically count on this as a rule, whenever you’re saying something reductive like this, You are probably missing something really critical.
In this case that critical thing you’re missing is ease of use and support.
I’m not putting a Linux distro under my couch because I know that almost as a fact that computer will break in some strange way, and I will have to dig that stupid thing out from under my TV, plug it into some stupid monitor keyboard and mouse, and fix it by following a guide on Google, reinstall the operating system to whatever the hot flavor of the month that actually has developer support is, that sort of thing.
But I would happily install steam OS, because I know I would drop steam OS on that box and it would just work for however long valve has a successful hardware line, which at this point I think is going to be a decade given the success of the steam deck.
No, you don’t. SteamOS on Deck is only so stable because everyone has the exact same hardware, a version that people can just install on anything they want would have the exact same post-install risks as any other distro.
And even then there have been problems with SteamOS on Deck big enough that it made some have to re-image the OS entirely. There was one version that would stop booting once it hit a certain number of files on system, and all you could do was just to occasionally re-install SteamOS until it was fixed.
The OS being bug-free on valves hardware absolutely does not mean it will be on whatever you’re chucking beneath your TV.
But this defense doesn’t even apply to the claim you made, or why I took issue. What you said, is that SteamOS is “more powerful”. It’s not, it’s objectively less capable than most linux distros. What you meant, is that’s is more convenient, and less likely to require occasional troubleshooting.
SteamOS on Deck is only so stable because everyone has the exact same hardware,
For the most part windows does it fine too.
And even then there have been problems with SteamOS on Deck big enough that it made some have to re-image the OS entirely
You’re going to see some issues when something ships hundreds of thousands of products, but the difference is when someone has a problem with the steam deck it’s going to generally be an exception.
When someone has a problem with your custom Linux build? That’s generally the rule.
I use Lenox all the time, so I can say this pretty confidently. A few weeks ago I tried to disable ipv6 on Ubuntu. After doing that the Wi-Fi program crashed every time I tried to make a connection and I had to go into the files and delete all of the configs.
You’re not into just basic stuff like that all the time with any Linux build or stuff just breaks. Something like the steam deck that is so tightly controlled and managed by a third party company that is going to be way more rare in the system is going to be way more reliable.
The OS being bug-free on valves hardware absolutely does not mean it will be on whatever you’re chucking beneath your TV.
Not necessarily, but it’s going to be a lot more likely to with the reduced scope and the fact that you have valve, able to do real testing and validation and give you supported hardware.
And, you’re still wrong, what you said, is that SteamOS is “more powerful”. It’s not, it’s objectively less capable than most linux distros
At that point you’re just nitpicking and confusing what exactly I meant by power.
When I said more powerful, I refer to the fact that the steamos is built from the ground up to be nothing but a controller based interface with absolutely no dependency on mouse or keyboard.
More powerful in the context of being an under the TV set box, and in the fact that it’s a digital built from the ground up, supported by an actual company, it’s far more useful and capable as an under the TV set box than any other Linux alternative.
If you’re defining power as the ability to open up a shell and do whatever the heck you want, you’re describing a trait that is entirely and fully negative when it comes to having a computer under your TV. You can’t say a big buff guy is a powerful swimmer because he can lift weights.
SteamOS is Steam running Big Picture mode on a modified and limited Linux distribution based on Arch, with not much else going on. There is some weird shit with the compositor, but you can replicate that on any other Linux system.
It’s quite literally nothing special. The only reason to want it on Desktop is to save a few minutes of setup for a machine you intend to only run Steam games.
Its a fair take, but the “game mode” where the is is running gamescope allows valve to do some magic that’s not super possible with the current big picture
Does it have more oomph? More chutzpah? More mileage? More HP? More pep in its step? More ability to go the distance? More firepower? More brass? More boldness? More flavor?
The lack of flexibility is power when it comes to use as a console. “You can do the same” isn’t true when the desire is to have a no bullshit “just works” experience with minimal setup.
You can install Bazzite and you will have the same experience you would get with SteamOS. Don’t use the extra features and you won’t be able to tell the difference. It is a “just works” experience with minimal setup. The setup even includes emulators and launchers like the FFXIV one so it is even more minimal than SteamOS.
It may not work directly on a given PC or a specific device, but that would also happen if Valve released a generic SteamOS.
I dunno but I tried that and it didn’t work at all. Had to go searching around online for how to even install a damn game. Then when I launched it, the game started running at like 2FPS.
The same game runs on the same PC on Windows at 144FPS.
And that’s the story of the time I tried to game on Linux.
Installing games is same as Windows, download and launch via Steam. As for lack of FPS, willing to bet you had an Nvidia card but didn’t install the drivers for it.
Incorrect again. If you try to do that on a non-Linux game, Steam just acts like it’s incompatible and the install button is greyed out without any indication of anything to do with Proton or how to make it work.
Going from 144fps to 2fps sounds like a graphics driver issue to me, what was the problem then?
I don’t know. The “that’s the story of the time I tried to play games on Linux” indicates that I, and most every other user, doesn’t care enough to spend all day burrowing through search engines and support threads to figure out how to just make the thing work.
uh… ok. It really is that simple, I play games everyday on Linux and that is exactly how I’ve installed 100s of games, so I’m really not getting it… Are you talking about enabling Steam Play in the Steam settings or something?
I don’t know. The “that’s the story of the time I tried to play games on Linux” indicates that I, and most every other user, doesn’t care enough to spend all day burrowing through search engines and support threads to figure out how to just make the thing work.
I don’t know why you are telling me this, I’m not the King of Linux or anything. Just thought I might help you with your problem, I don’t know what I did for you to unload all this on me lol
Incorrect again. If you try to do that on a non-Linux game, Steam just acts like it’s incompatible and the install button is greyed out without any indication of anything to do with Proton or how to make it work.
Nah, we all get the point. You claim that Steam does not come with Proton on regular Linux distributions but you’re wrong which is an easily googlable fact you continue to deny. If your installation of Steam is somehow broken, that’s specific to you. At most the “Enable Steam Play” checkbox has to be ticked in Steam’s settings.
I think Valve has good intentions and wants a lot of things done soon, but they just don’t have enough people on their Steam Deck team to get things done at the speed they want.
Your guess has the right feel for me too. A lot of people were hungry for OLED and this is the trade off.
I’m just ready for Linux to grow. Maybe it is naive to think that one distro will carry us much further but with the proper solution I can easily imagine a lot of people dual booting their PCs soon.
The temerity to repeat ‘soon’ for well over a year is one of Valve’s worst traits. One wonders if reflexively lying to customers is intentionally baked into their culture.
This right here is why they do like one interview a year, lmao.
What he actually said was “I hope [it will be soon]”, but for whatever reason people’s reading comprehension skills go out the window whenever there is a Valve interview.
The reading of his intention is plain; regardless my curiosity stems from a similar interview that was issued before the Deck launched and not this particular conversation.
Back then advising “not anytime soon” would have set a fair expectation but Valve chose to serve pablum and continues to do so regardless of the number of interviews/communications that have been released in the past year alone.
I spent a few minutes going over old interviews and didn’t find anything insinuating that would be “soon”. Most I could find was:
I think it’s pretty silly to expect Valve to release SteamOS when it doesn’t even have a (immutable) package manager, among many other missing features.
Two years ago Valve advised it would be generally available shortly after launch. I find it less silly to expect a company to shoot straight with the consumer than it is to apologize on their behalf (parasocial creatures though we may be.)
Again… I can’t find where they said that, maybe post the quote?
Honestly, what would you get out of SteamOS on PC anyway? Just install Linux, set up the drivers you need, launch Steam at startup, and default it to Big Picture Mode.
Boom, SteamOS.
Steam OS is a lot more powerful than big picture
In what way? Sure… If you compare just big picture mode to an entire OS, but that’s hardly what was meant.
My desktop with endeavour OS and SteamDeck can do all the same things… In fact doing some things on the deck is more tricky because it’s limited to installing flatpaks.
That’s the advantage. A PC with a layer on top is a PC with a layer on top. It still wants you to have a mouse and keyboard. You still have to update it like a normal desktop PC.
Steam OS is controller and controller only. It’s a no bullshit durable system designed to be put on a box and just leave it that way.
You can do the same things, but I’m not putting a norma lLinux box running steam under my TV.
Except SteamOS is also just “a linux box running steam”… A PC with a layer on top. The only differences I’m hearing you wanting is immutability, and discrete version updates instead of a bunch of package upgrades. There are several immutable distros, and updates can be made painless in a variety of ways.
The SteamOS UI is big picture mode now. Since some update or other, the old big picture mode from SteamOS 1.0 got updated to the SteamDeck UI for desktop as well.
You can basically count on this as a rule, whenever you’re saying something reductive like this, You are probably missing something really critical.
In this case that critical thing you’re missing is ease of use and support.
I’m not putting a Linux distro under my couch because I know that almost as a fact that computer will break in some strange way, and I will have to dig that stupid thing out from under my TV, plug it into some stupid monitor keyboard and mouse, and fix it by following a guide on Google, reinstall the operating system to whatever the hot flavor of the month that actually has developer support is, that sort of thing.
But I would happily install steam OS, because I know I would drop steam OS on that box and it would just work for however long valve has a successful hardware line, which at this point I think is going to be a decade given the success of the steam deck.
No, you don’t. SteamOS on Deck is only so stable because everyone has the exact same hardware, a version that people can just install on anything they want would have the exact same post-install risks as any other distro.
And even then there have been problems with SteamOS on Deck big enough that it made some have to re-image the OS entirely. There was one version that would stop booting once it hit a certain number of files on system, and all you could do was just to occasionally re-install SteamOS until it was fixed.
The OS being bug-free on valves hardware absolutely does not mean it will be on whatever you’re chucking beneath your TV.
But this defense doesn’t even apply to the claim you made, or why I took issue. What you said, is that SteamOS is “more powerful”. It’s not, it’s objectively less capable than most linux distros. What you meant, is that’s is more convenient, and less likely to require occasional troubleshooting.
For the most part windows does it fine too.
You’re going to see some issues when something ships hundreds of thousands of products, but the difference is when someone has a problem with the steam deck it’s going to generally be an exception.
When someone has a problem with your custom Linux build? That’s generally the rule.
I use Lenox all the time, so I can say this pretty confidently. A few weeks ago I tried to disable ipv6 on Ubuntu. After doing that the Wi-Fi program crashed every time I tried to make a connection and I had to go into the files and delete all of the configs.
You’re not into just basic stuff like that all the time with any Linux build or stuff just breaks. Something like the steam deck that is so tightly controlled and managed by a third party company that is going to be way more rare in the system is going to be way more reliable.
Not necessarily, but it’s going to be a lot more likely to with the reduced scope and the fact that you have valve, able to do real testing and validation and give you supported hardware.
At that point you’re just nitpicking and confusing what exactly I meant by power.
When I said more powerful, I refer to the fact that the steamos is built from the ground up to be nothing but a controller based interface with absolutely no dependency on mouse or keyboard.
More powerful in the context of being an under the TV set box, and in the fact that it’s a digital built from the ground up, supported by an actual company, it’s far more useful and capable as an under the TV set box than any other Linux alternative.
If you’re defining power as the ability to open up a shell and do whatever the heck you want, you’re describing a trait that is entirely and fully negative when it comes to having a computer under your TV. You can’t say a big buff guy is a powerful swimmer because he can lift weights.
SteamOS is Steam running Big Picture mode on a modified and limited Linux distribution based on Arch, with not much else going on. There is some weird shit with the compositor, but you can replicate that on any other Linux system.
It’s quite literally nothing special. The only reason to want it on Desktop is to save a few minutes of setup for a machine you intend to only run Steam games.
Right, and I never said it was only Big Picture. What can it do that Linux + Big Picture can’t?
Its a fair take, but the “game mode” where the is is running gamescope allows valve to do some magic that’s not super possible with the current big picture
Does it have more oomph? More chutzpah? More mileage? More HP? More pep in its step? More ability to go the distance? More firepower? More brass? More boldness? More flavor?
Yes
SteamOS is a less flexible distribution of Arch Linux. You can do the same and even more with other distributions. Even on the Steam Deck.
The lack of flexibility is power when it comes to use as a console. “You can do the same” isn’t true when the desire is to have a no bullshit “just works” experience with minimal setup.
You can install Bazzite and you will have the same experience you would get with SteamOS. Don’t use the extra features and you won’t be able to tell the difference. It is a “just works” experience with minimal setup. The setup even includes emulators and launchers like the FFXIV one so it is even more minimal than SteamOS.
It may not work directly on a given PC or a specific device, but that would also happen if Valve released a generic SteamOS.
Edit: typo
I dunno but I tried that and it didn’t work at all. Had to go searching around online for how to even install a damn game. Then when I launched it, the game started running at like 2FPS.
The same game runs on the same PC on Windows at 144FPS.
And that’s the story of the time I tried to game on Linux.
Installing games is same as Windows, download and launch via Steam. As for lack of FPS, willing to bet you had an Nvidia card but didn’t install the drivers for it.
So it sounds a lot like you’ve never actually done this before because that’s factually incorrect.
Wrong again.
You click the game on Steam, click “install”. That’s the same on Windows or Linux, the client doesn’t change.
Going from 144fps to 2fps sounds like a graphics driver issue to me, what was the problem then?
Incorrect again. If you try to do that on a non-Linux game, Steam just acts like it’s incompatible and the install button is greyed out without any indication of anything to do with Proton or how to make it work.
I don’t know. The “that’s the story of the time I tried to play games on Linux” indicates that I, and most every other user, doesn’t care enough to spend all day burrowing through search engines and support threads to figure out how to just make the thing work.
That’s why the Steam Deck, and SteamOS, exists.
uh… ok. It really is that simple, I play games everyday on Linux and that is exactly how I’ve installed 100s of games, so I’m really not getting it… Are you talking about enabling Steam Play in the Steam settings or something?
I don’t know why you are telling me this, I’m not the King of Linux or anything. Just thought I might help you with your problem, I don’t know what I did for you to unload all this on me lol
As a reminder: the topic of discussion is the difference between SteamOS and any other OS + Steam.
Then you disabled Steam Play.
Wrong again.
As a long time openSUSE user I know for a fact that you’re wrong.
And as someone who has actually used Steam on Linux, I know that you’re wrong .
And you’re the only one!
Just for shits and giggles I fired up a VM and did a clean Steam installation from Flathub. This is the default:
Steam Play (=Proton) is on for supported Windows games. For unsupported games it’s off.
Wait, you had so much trouble to look if the “Enable Steam Play” checkbox was ticked? 🙄
Yet another person missing the point 🤦
Nah, we all get the point. You claim that Steam does not come with Proton on regular Linux distributions but you’re wrong which is an easily googlable fact you continue to deny. If your installation of Steam is somehow broken, that’s specific to you. At most the “Enable Steam Play” checkbox has to be ticked in Steam’s settings.
I continue to deny it because it’s wrong. I don’t know what Google says, I just know how it worked when I used it myself.
Which is something it does not tell you and does not tell you how to do.
Yeah, the whole world is wrong. You’re the only one knowing the truth.
You’re not going to gaslight me into believing something I personally experienced is wrong. So you can just go away now.
I think Valve has good intentions and wants a lot of things done soon, but they just don’t have enough people on their Steam Deck team to get things done at the speed they want.
Yeah, and that’s probably why development for 3.5 has also been this slow. They were busy with the OLED model
Your guess has the right feel for me too. A lot of people were hungry for OLED and this is the trade off.
I’m just ready for Linux to grow. Maybe it is naive to think that one distro will carry us much further but with the proper solution I can easily imagine a lot of people dual booting their PCs soon.