The unconfirmed allegation is raising concerns that the coffee chain is the latest corporation to cave to far-right attacks on LGBTQ people.

  • 10A@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Friend, my account is less than 24 hours old has has karma of -236 (probably lower by the time I finish writing this) almost entirely due to this thread. So let’s talk about echo chambers, yours and mine.

    Everyone (from across the political spectrum) knows reddit’s r/politics abhors balance and neutrality in favor of extreme far-leftist idiocy. It’s widely assumed that’s due to the mods, so I figured there’s no way that bizarre phenomenon could be repeated on another platform. Well I don’t think it can be explained by moderation in the present thread. I think it’s clearly that all the children from r/politics flocked here, creating a self-manifesting filter-bubble. It’s a pretty interesting phenomenon, really. I don’t think I’ve ever seen something like that manifest anywhere else.

    Ideally, if this is m/politics, it should be well-balanced, encompassing perspectives from all sides, and always upvoting the level-headed conservative viewpoints. In this day and age, when the Left has gone so off-the-deep-end crazy, embracing evils such as homosex and baby slaughter, a balanced m/politics would downvote all extremist viewpoints, which means basically anything from the Left these days.

    I commented on this article shortly after joining, when there were very few other comments on the article, with fingers crossed that all of the naive children from r/politics wouldn’t be here en masse. Clearly I was wrong. But as you grow up, and become more conservative (like we all do with life experience), you’ll learn that almost every adult is essentially conservative, and striving to become more mature (ie more conservative and traditional) as we age. Obviously some people fail at that goal, and yes there are some 80yo stoners out there who act like teenagers, but by and large the filter-bubble of normal adults is extraordinarily huge.

    • QHC@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      But as you grow up, and become more conservative (like we all do with life experience)…

      I don’t accept the premise that everyone gets more conservative as they get older. That does not stand up to study as far as I am aware. Here are some example sources to back up this claim: 1 2.

      …you’ll learn that almost every adult is essentially conservative…

      By what measure or definition are you using the word “conservative” here? What is the cutoff for an “adult”, is that the same as being able to vote or are you drawing an arbitrary line at an older age? Surely you are not suggesting that “almost every adult” is a GOP voter, because even Trump would not be so brazen as to pretend there are no Democrats at all!

      …and striving to become more mature (ie more conservative and traditional) as we age.

      I completely reject the equation of maturity with “conservative and traditional”. This is just nonsense that reveals the magnitude of your bias. I am not going to argue that almost every adult is naturally more liberal or progressive, that is just absurd and has no basis at all in reality or facts.

      • 10A@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Thank you for including sources! I dispute them, but I value the fact that you included them. Here’s why I dispute them:

        • The first one is from the University of Chicago, which is one of the most left-leaning institutions in the nation. They took their data from the Michigan Youth-Parent Socialization Panel Study. A different study in a more typical part of the US, using the same methodology, would yield quite different results.
        • The second one is an editorial from the Guardian, a left-leaning publication. That’s not to say it’s entirely false, but it’s certainly biased. Also millennials are still too young to observe this effect very well, and the articles all about millennials.

        And a couple more reasons:

        • This is entirely anecdotal, but personally, I have become way more conservative with age, having been a drugged out punk youth, and gradually transforming into a Christian conservative adult. I know quite a few people who changed similarly, and I know nobody who changed in reverse. Anecdotal, I know.
        • I think having Trump in office generally delayed the effect of young people becoming more conservative. Not that Trump is all that conservative. But few young leftists looked at Trump and said “I like that guy.” And by “few” I mean yes, there really were a few, but it was not close to the majority.

        By what measure or definition are you using the word “conservative” here?

        In the broad American sense: someone who wants to preserve traditional Judeo-Christian values, with either a strong belief in “liberty or death”, a strong support for the police, or — in cases where cognitive dissonance runs strong — both.

        What is the cutoff for an “adult”, is that the same as being able to vote or are you drawing an arbitrary line at an older age?

        Your guess is as good as mine. It’s subjective.

        Surely you are not suggesting that “almost every adult” is a GOP voter, because even Trump would not be so brazen as to pretend there are no Democrats at all!

        Ha, do not underestimate Trump! Lol. I do think if you look at voter affiliation by age bracket, there’s a certain age threshold above which 50% or more voters are right of center.

        I completely reject the equation of maturity with “conservative and traditional”.

        I respect your rejection of that equivalence. I am certainly biased, as I believe we all are. That assertion just reflects my experience. Take it or leave it.

    • yunggwailo@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Cons being absolutely batshit crazy and condescending and wondering why nobody wants to treat them with respect

      • 10A@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I find it fascinating to hear that perspective. Among conservatives, it’s widely acknowledged that the Left is crazy, and has become increasingly crazy over the years. Conservative basically means normal, ie not crazy — we like preserving traditional values, whereas the Left like violently destroying everything we hold dear. I don’t mean to dispute your perspective; we’re all entitled to one. I just find it interesting, and without a doubt crazy.

        As for your assertion that I’m condescending, I’m sorry for whatever I said that came across that way. I am praying for you and everyone else in this thread, that we may all come to be one in Christ.

        • QHC@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Traditional values like what? Be specific. I bet many of us would disagree that those values are worth preserving.

          Can you cite any examples of physical violence committed by “the left” and what specific political objective those incidents achieved?

          It’s ironic that you act like the other side is unreasonable when you start with the assumption that “the left” is inherently unreasonable and impossible to have a dialogue with. You aren’t leaving any room for conversation. I am willing to listen to your arguments, but we also need to be able to “agree to disagree” without dehumanizing each other.

          • 10A@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Traditional values like what? Be specific. I bet many of us would disagree that those values are worth preserving.

            If this thread about Starbucks is any measure, no almost nobody here would agree with me. Since Adam and Eve, marriage has been a holy union between one man and one woman (up until a few years ago). And by “man” and “woman” I mean strictly according to their chromosomes. Who in m/politics is going to upvote that? Anyone other than me?

            (Edit: after submitting this comment, I realized I misread “disagree” thinking you said “agree” for some reason. I’m sure you’re right that many here would disagree! IMHO, we should always seek to follow the ways of our forefathers who gave us this civilization.)

            There’s no way I could enumerate all traditional values. It’d be a 700-page book. So I’ll leave the list at that one. It’s one of the most important traditional values anyway.

            Can you cite any examples of physical violence committed by “the left” and what specific political objective those incidents achieved?

            Look, this is just so off-topic, and only shows that you don’t bother to expose yourself to any non-leftist news. The past decade has been filled with a ton of answers to this question, and you can find more on a weekly or daily basis. There’s no way I could list them all. There’s so many that it’s even difficult to choose one. All I can say is you ought to broaden your news sources.

            It’s ironic that you act like the other side is unreasonable when you start with the assumption that “the left” is inherently unreasonable and impossible to have a dialogue with. You aren’t leaving any room for conversation. I am willing to listen to your arguments, but we also need to be able to “agree to disagree” without dehumanizing each other.

            I agree, and I’m sorry. I’m just a fan of sticking to the topic, which in this case is Starbucks and pride decorations. Obviously that’s a can of worms, so here we are. It’s my fault for leading the conversation to the big picture without wanting to discuss the big picture. That was a mistake. Sorry. I don’t mean to be shutting down conversation, and I do recognize that you have a valid point here. Maybe we’ll find a different thread in the future that strikes me as more conducive to unpacking these topics.

          • 10A@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Oh boy, you’re asking for a rant. I’m going to do you a favor and spare you the fifty paragraph reply. Sorry, you’re asking a completely legitimate question if you’re coming from a leftist perspective and you really don’t know what I’m talking about. I’m just not going to type all of that out here.

              • 10A@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                As humble Christians, I’m sure you’d all eagerly learn from it how to better yourselves and become upstanding conservative citizens. So sorry to disappoint.

                • QHC@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  How odd to be so vocal about being right and then refuse to elaborate when people are earnestly and respectfully asking for your opinion. Are you secretly ashamed to preach what you actually believe?

                  • 10A@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    I’m an advocate of staying on topic. And besides, anybody prompting me for a rant just wants to laugh at the crackpot and click the downvote button. That’s not very respectful at all. Accept the word “no” if you want to be respectful.

        • Col3814444@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          You regularly ‘communicate’ with a man that has been dead for over 2000 years by talking to your ceiling, because you believe that (despite being dead) he has magical powers.

          And then go around calling everyone else “crazy”.

          • 10A@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            That sure would sound crazy if it wasn’t true. But the part about Jesus being dead is not true at all. 500 witnesses observed His resurrection (See 1 Corinthians 15:3-8.) Why do you think Christianity has spread so far and wide, and has so many converts? Why do you think the Bible has been accepted as the word of God and foundation of Western Civilization for generation after generation? Do you think our forefathers were all dumber than you? They weren’t. The truth is God is irrefutably real, and you’d know that if you open your heart to receive Him.

            Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
            But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

            (Matthew 10:32-33)

            • Col3814444@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              And dead people all over Jerusalem ‘rose from their graves and wandered around’… yeah… sure they did bud. Whatever you say.

              These are Stories. Not facts, stories. Stories written for children, about magical wizards.

              You are the literal equivalent of the kid that -actually- believes in Santa Claus and can’t stop telling everyone around him that he’s the smart one who is going to get all the presents.

              • 10A@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                First off I am only four years old, and secondly, are you trying to tell me there’s no such thing as Santa?

                Joking.

                Yes, the Bible is filled with stories. Some of them are parables to teach us moral behavior, while other stories are historically accurate. You use the word “story” as if you don’t understand the difference between fiction and nonfiction. All biblical stories are either nonfiction or parables.

                You’re the one who seems like you’re trying to prove how smart you are, by questioning the word of God. But who ever gave you permission to do that? The comfort of the Bible is that we know what to think, how to think, and how to behave. It is juvenile to question and doubt; it is mature and wise to accept God’s word and do God’s will.

                No, I do not claim to be smart. I’m a humble servant of God.

                • Col3814444@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Dude, in the comment just prior to that one, you just used the bible as a source of evidence to prove to us all that the bible is true. I have absolutely no doubts about who you think you are.

                  Since you seem to love proselytising to others I’m going to reverse UNO you dude.

                  Try reading: ‘The Demon Haunted World’ by Carl Sagan, or ‘The God Delusion’ by Richard Dawkins.

                  Surely someone so confident in your faith as you can stand up to one little book can’t you? What do you have to lose but the ability to learn and grow?

                  • 10A@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    I grew up an atheist, surrounded by secular culture. While I haven’t read either of those particular books, I’ve read so many other arguments against God over the years. Yes, my faith is strong, but no, I don’t desire to subject myself to the temptation to deny God. I have no doubt the books offer thought-provoking and compelling arguments, as both of those authors are intelligent. And I have no doubt that some Christians have read them and offered critiques and rebuttals, as with any opinionated book. Also I have so many books that I’ve bought but haven’t read yet, and I’m working through them slowly, but I keep buying more! I’m pretty frugal overall, but I definitely lack some self-control when it comes to buying books. So overall, no, I won’t read those, but I honestly do appreciate your recommendations. Thank you.