When I opened this site 5 days ago, I could not have guessed that I would post
such a post. But here we are. As you know, we did a poll on this topic here
[https://lemmynsfw.com/post/26029]. Around 40% of people said to block, the rest
said to not to. In such cases, we wanted to make the poll, even though it
doesn’t matter. Right now, I’m still currently agreeing with @bobbiguy2122
[https://lemmynsfw.com/u/bobbiguy2122] here
[https://lemmynsfw.com/comment/82152]. We are going to let community moderators
handle the situation in within limits. So it’s going to be users choice to
subscribe to that community or creating new one with his own rules. #### Why not
completely block it If we are going to split, there is so many fractions as
well. As someone who only likes women and plain porn, I don’t want to ban
tentacle, futanari or gay stuff. Because even though they are kinky, they are
also a pleasure. Being attracted to petite teens is just like these pleasures,
and the vast majority actually like it. I think we should not ban this pleasure
just because it is in a dangerous area. #### As a result First of all we will
explicitly ban IRL loli images. Although we will allow non-IRL content under
moderator control, tho we will control childish content independently of
moderators too. We will make this distinction according to images that look and
act like children. #### Defederation I see a lot of people are worried about
this situation. But I don’t care. Because as you can see, beehaw, one of the
largest instances, blocked the other 2 largest instances. This situation is
inevitable in NSFW only instances like us. As a result, you must have one main
account, where you can access all instances, and one NSFW account, where you can
only access NSFW content. For example, I don’t plan to block any instances on
this instance, except in extreme cases.
Lets not beat around the bush here, lots of people like to look at boobs and dicks.
Lemmynsfw was looking like a good place to go, but reading the “Loli” announcement thread where they equate drawn child porn to petite women, its clear the owner is not the right person to be hosting a NSFW instance for the majority of people.
Is there anywhere else that people can recommend?
There is undoubtably a need for such an instance. Can we discuss this like adults?
Beehaw was right to defederate many instances and so should we. Beehaw is crazy but not that crazy.
Defederate these instances, what are you so afraid of? Some people here are going full throttle on the freedom of blabla, don’t listen to them. Ban this stuff, do you really want Kbin to be known as “this network”? Do you want this reputation? I don’t. If you want more then register to another instance which accepts this stuff but don’t drag all our infrastructure with you.
Federating this content puts the servers of Ernest in danger.
edit: downvote me more, I take it as a badge of honor because I know who it’s coming from.
I’ll just point out that I never suggested anyone defederate from anyone.
As a side point though, lots of places had already defederated from lemmynsfw.
I just want a NSFW instance that doesn’t cater to pseudo child porn
I mean, it seems like they back-pedaled on that (or were unclear initially and never intended to allow drawn CP), as long as it stays that way and they actually enforce it, I don’t see a need to de-federate
I think the beauty of the feddiverse is that WE WILL get another more curated nsfw community. Right now its early and messy, we’re figuring our communities out. I think we’ll be alright.
Absolutely.
All the apologists have come out guns blazing.
My post was just asking for alternatives.
I never suggested defederation, or called for a boycott or anything. I just want to see some boobs every now and then without having to scroll past drawings of naked children
The fact this post has so many apologists and people defending the instance is disappointing
Like I am not interested in seeing NSFW but I don’t care if it’s around… people drawing kids being raped (kids can’t consent even if they claim they’re 100 years old) is disturbing and objectively wrong. Someone masturbating to these images adds a whole different level of mental health ussue compared to someone who just watches disturbing content for enjoyment without the sexual aspect. If it were legal these same people would be extremely likely to not only watch real CP or even engage in it otherwise they wouldn’t resort to loopholes.
Guess other instances do not care regardless even if its correctly flagged and tagged and everything. I had a discussion about this topic with the mods of feddit.de, but they are firm to block whole instances if there is any NSFW community on it. No matter what. I am now on kbin and deleted my account there.
Why don’t you open an account on one of those instance instead of pushing it in our throats?
No one wants to shove petite Asian ladies into your throat. Just don’t subscribe to those communities/magazines. That NSFW magazines appear in All is nothing but a technical issue.
Why the hell do you think having 5 accounts so you can subscribe to everything you want is acceptable.
Everyone will note that you never address the pedo data ending up hosted by Ernest if we don’t defederate. You never talk about that, it’s always about you, you you. Well sorry for you but you are not alone and there are real-life implications to hosting this content.
This pedo content has nothing to do on this server.
Just don’t subscribe to those communities/magazines.
No, YOU go out and get your illegal content from the source.
Again, no one is talking about child porn beside you. Everything lemmynsfw allows is legal in any jurisdiction. And everything it disallows like Loli and shota is clearly something no one wants to see here on kbin or lemmy even if it is legal in many parts of the world. The line is right there and lemmynsfw never challaned it.
I want kbin to be known as a network that is neutral and federates with all other instances, allowing users to decide what they wish to see. the second something is defederated/blocked, it becomes a slippery slope of crying to block this or that, and taking away power from the users.
It’s sad to see that there are people who see thing as all or nothing. Life requires nuance and every situation needs to be analyzed and treated differently otherwise we end up with blanket policies that are ineffective and even punish those it seeks to protect.
Free speech is great but it ends when it becomes a detriment to society or in this case a vulnerable group. I don’t have kids and don’t care to be around them but the idea that someone would find sexual gratification from the image of a child-like body is abhorrent. Also it’s a good indication that these people themselves experienced childhood sexual assault and that needs to be dealt with in a healthy manner, not by normalizing the act.
IMO, unless it’s explicitly illegal, people should be free to share/say/discuss it. let people decide what they wish to see on their own and curate their own experience.
I believe illustrated child porn is illegal here in Canada, as well as other countries (not going to google it though). Seems like it isn’t in the US? I find it kind of shocking that so many people don’t see an issue with it, tbh.
Its not an issue for those you can seperate what they think is ok from what they think should be allowable due to peoples personal freedom. A drawing is a creation of an artist from some sort of media. When its created, no one gets hurt. When its consumed, no one gets hurt. Will I be a consumer. Nope but I also believe in legalization of prositution without planning to go to one. I was for marijuana legalization and have never used it. Rights are not just about what I think is fine.
server host’s laws. the goal being to avoid legal takedowns. I’m a free speech maximalist. The only thing that should ever be taken down IMO is nonconsensual nsfw photos/videos. So cp, revenge porn, deepfakes, etc. along with literal off-topic spam (spammy affiliate links).
Well, what if do want that? What should be of my sever that is set up in a country where said content was legal? I’m well aware I’m making more of a hypothetical statement here, but I believe that kinda stuff doesn’t really have a place being blatantly public to everyone by default. I can empathize with free speech but I do believe there needs to be at least some sort of soft barriers.
Also, “avoiding legal takedowns” is kinda sus. I’m sure you didn’t mean anything by it but it really isn’t a strong opener when talking about porn.
What should be of my sever that is set up in a country where said content was legal?
If you wish to see such content and such content is legal in your area, then you should be free to have an instance that does that. Personally I would support defederating from such a service. These are not merely a preference of content, but rather things that have actual harm to actual people.
but I believe that kinda stuff doesn’t really have a place being blatantly public to everyone by default.
“federated” and “public to everyone by default” are two entirely different things. I agree, that nsfw content of any kind shouldn’t be public front page “to everyone by default”. That doesn’t mean we should defederate from nsfw instances.
Also, “avoiding legal takedowns” is kinda sus. I’m sure you didn’t mean anything by it but it really isn’t a strong opener when talking about porn.
Keep in mind that legality of nsfw content varies wildly per region. For example, japan explicitly bans any nsfw materials showing genitals that are not blurred/pixelated. So if a server is hosted in japan, then it’s expected that that sort of content (uncensored genitals) would be banned/defederated in order to stay compliant with the laws of the region. Similarly, a server hosted in the middle east might be expected to ban/defederate from instances home to imagery of muhammad, or of nsfw lgbt content.
Personally I would support defederating from such a service. These are not merely a preference of content, but rather things that have actual harm to actual people.
Agreed. Could you further clarify you stance above then, about kbin being federated all other instances?
“federated” and “public to everyone by default” are two entirely different things.
Yeah, I’m pretty new here it probably shows. I’m aware it isn’t exactly like that and I didn’t know at the moment (and still don’t) how to put my thoughts into words.
Keep in mind that legality of nsfw content varies wildly per region.
I can appreciate avoiding the law for what could be described as “socially just” reasons. I just think that opening with that may unintentionally include harmful subjects, such as the ones you have listed above.
I think each person should be allowed to choose what that line is for them, and not have that line chosen for them.
Disclaimer: I was a victim of child SA, I do not support or condone SA. But I DO support pedophiles who have never and will never act on their desires having a SAFE NONVIOLENT FICTIONAL outlet for their perverted fantasies, if anything so they don’t take that shit out on innocent children.
A friend (therapist) of mine worked with pedophiles and the story they told them is that consuming that content leads to more and more desire to actual assault a child.
I’m no expert in that field, but I personally would rather see such content banned and people that look for it to be served ads that help them.
Yes. This is exactly like study after study about violence in video games. Consumption of violent content in video games leads to more and more desire to actually be violent to people.
Eh, I get the principle, and we should definitely be less trigger-happy about defederating than beehaw, but if a server starts tolerating a bunch of drawn CP, we should probably just defederate. That being said, it seems like lemmynsfw is prohibiting it, so I say we keep federating with them unless it becomes clear they won’t actually enforce that rule.
No reason to cut ourselves off from half the nsfw communities on the fediverse unless we have to.
One of my biggest concerns with these kind of platforms is that they’ll end up being a home for creeps and criminals due to a lack of rule enforcement. I don’t want to be ashamed to use this platform or anyone to suspect me for it.
Beehaw was right to defederate many instances and so should we. Beehaw is crazy but not that crazy.
Defederate these instances, what are you so afraid of? Some people here are going full throttle on the freedom of blabla, don’t listen to them. Ban this stuff, do you really want Kbin to be known as “this network”? Do you want this reputation? I don’t. If you want more then register to another instance which accepts this stuff but don’t drag all our infrastructure with you.
Federating this content puts the servers of Ernest in danger.
edit: downvote me more, I take it as a badge of honor because I know who it’s coming from.
I’ll just point out that I never suggested anyone defederate from anyone.
As a side point though, lots of places had already defederated from lemmynsfw.
I just want a NSFW instance that doesn’t cater to pseudo child porn
I mean, it seems like they back-pedaled on that (or were unclear initially and never intended to allow drawn CP), as long as it stays that way and they actually enforce it, I don’t see a need to de-federate
I think the beauty of the feddiverse is that WE WILL get another more curated nsfw community. Right now its early and messy, we’re figuring our communities out. I think we’ll be alright.
Absolutely.
All the apologists have come out guns blazing.
My post was just asking for alternatives.
I never suggested defederation, or called for a boycott or anything. I just want to see some boobs every now and then without having to scroll past drawings of naked children
The fact this post has so many apologists and people defending the instance is disappointing
Like I am not interested in seeing NSFW but I don’t care if it’s around… people drawing kids being raped (kids can’t consent even if they claim they’re 100 years old) is disturbing and objectively wrong. Someone masturbating to these images adds a whole different level of mental health ussue compared to someone who just watches disturbing content for enjoyment without the sexual aspect. If it were legal these same people would be extremely likely to not only watch real CP or even engage in it otherwise they wouldn’t resort to loopholes.
Is this you u/spez on some mission to destroy the federated world before it had a chance to grow up?
If that kind of content was allowed here I’d delete my account. No, one wants that kind of trouble.
You wrote:
Why don’t you open an account on one of those instance instead of pushing it in our throats?
No one wants to shove petite Asian ladies into your throat. Just don’t subscribe to those communities/magazines. That NSFW magazines appear in All is nothing but a technical issue.
Why the hell do you think having 5 accounts so you can subscribe to everything you want is acceptable.
It’s always the fucking furries
🤡
Everyone will note that you never address the pedo data ending up hosted by Ernest if we don’t defederate. You never talk about that, it’s always about you, you you. Well sorry for you but you are not alone and there are real-life implications to hosting this content.
This pedo content has nothing to do on this server.
No, YOU go out and get your illegal content from the source.
It’s true, drawn child porn is still child porn in many juristictions, e.g, in the UK it’s explicitly prohibited. https://jd-solicitors.co.uk/guide-to-uk-pornography-laws/#:~:text=UK%20Child%20pornography%20laws&text=The%20first%20is%20indecent%20images,%2C%20and%20computer%2Dgenerated%20images
You can try and argue in court that the server you’re legally responsible for hosting child porn is permitted but…good luck.
No one here speaks about child pornography but you.
Go run your own instance, you will be able to federate with whoever you want. Your instance = your responsibility.
Again, no one is talking about child porn beside you. Everything lemmynsfw allows is legal in any jurisdiction. And everything it disallows like Loli and shota is clearly something no one wants to see here on kbin or lemmy even if it is legal in many parts of the world. The line is right there and lemmynsfw never challaned it.
What you say is wrong and people already explained to you why, you did not answer them.
This is not a game. This is real life with real consequences.
deleted by creator
I want kbin to be known as a network that is neutral and federates with all other instances, allowing users to decide what they wish to see. the second something is defederated/blocked, it becomes a slippery slope of crying to block this or that, and taking away power from the users.
There has to be a line though.
I saw this person defending exploding-heads (Nazi instance) earlier so I imagine the line looks much different for them than for you.
It’s sad to see that there are people who see thing as all or nothing. Life requires nuance and every situation needs to be analyzed and treated differently otherwise we end up with blanket policies that are ineffective and even punish those it seeks to protect. Free speech is great but it ends when it becomes a detriment to society or in this case a vulnerable group. I don’t have kids and don’t care to be around them but the idea that someone would find sexual gratification from the image of a child-like body is abhorrent. Also it’s a good indication that these people themselves experienced childhood sexual assault and that needs to be dealt with in a healthy manner, not by normalizing the act.
This is not a situation that requires nuance.
Who is being put out by rules that disallow this content?
IMO, unless it’s explicitly illegal, people should be free to share/say/discuss it. let people decide what they wish to see on their own and curate their own experience.
I believe illustrated child porn is illegal here in Canada, as well as other countries (not going to google it though). Seems like it isn’t in the US? I find it kind of shocking that so many people don’t see an issue with it, tbh.
Because here in the US marrying off children is normal.
loli/shota aren’t “illustrated child porn”.
Its not an issue for those you can seperate what they think is ok from what they think should be allowable due to peoples personal freedom. A drawing is a creation of an artist from some sort of media. When its created, no one gets hurt. When its consumed, no one gets hurt. Will I be a consumer. Nope but I also believe in legalization of prositution without planning to go to one. I was for marijuana legalization and have never used it. Rights are not just about what I think is fine.
And which legal system would we be using here?
server host’s laws. the goal being to avoid legal takedowns. I’m a free speech maximalist. The only thing that should ever be taken down IMO is nonconsensual nsfw photos/videos. So cp, revenge porn, deepfakes, etc. along with literal off-topic spam (spammy affiliate links).
Well, what if do want that? What should be of my sever that is set up in a country where said content was legal? I’m well aware I’m making more of a hypothetical statement here, but I believe that kinda stuff doesn’t really have a place being blatantly public to everyone by default. I can empathize with free speech but I do believe there needs to be at least some sort of soft barriers.
Also, “avoiding legal takedowns” is kinda sus. I’m sure you didn’t mean anything by it but it really isn’t a strong opener when talking about porn.
If you wish to see such content and such content is legal in your area, then you should be free to have an instance that does that. Personally I would support defederating from such a service. These are not merely a preference of content, but rather things that have actual harm to actual people.
“federated” and “public to everyone by default” are two entirely different things. I agree, that nsfw content of any kind shouldn’t be public front page “to everyone by default”. That doesn’t mean we should defederate from nsfw instances.
Keep in mind that legality of nsfw content varies wildly per region. For example, japan explicitly bans any nsfw materials showing genitals that are not blurred/pixelated. So if a server is hosted in japan, then it’s expected that that sort of content (uncensored genitals) would be banned/defederated in order to stay compliant with the laws of the region. Similarly, a server hosted in the middle east might be expected to ban/defederate from instances home to imagery of muhammad, or of nsfw lgbt content.
Agreed. Could you further clarify you stance above then, about kbin being federated all other instances?
Yeah, I’m pretty new here it probably shows. I’m aware it isn’t exactly like that and I didn’t know at the moment (and still don’t) how to put my thoughts into words.
I can appreciate avoiding the law for what could be described as “socially just” reasons. I just think that opening with that may unintentionally include harmful subjects, such as the ones you have listed above.
I think each person should be allowed to choose what that line is for them, and not have that line chosen for them.
Disclaimer: I was a victim of child SA, I do not support or condone SA. But I DO support pedophiles who have never and will never act on their desires having a SAFE NONVIOLENT FICTIONAL outlet for their perverted fantasies, if anything so they don’t take that shit out on innocent children.
A friend (therapist) of mine worked with pedophiles and the story they told them is that consuming that content leads to more and more desire to actual assault a child.
I’m no expert in that field, but I personally would rather see such content banned and people that look for it to be served ads that help them.
Yes. This is exactly like study after study about violence in video games. Consumption of violent content in video games leads to more and more desire to actually be violent to people.
deleted by creator
Eh, I get the principle, and we should definitely be less trigger-happy about defederating than beehaw, but if a server starts tolerating a bunch of drawn CP, we should probably just defederate. That being said, it seems like lemmynsfw is prohibiting it, so I say we keep federating with them unless it becomes clear they won’t actually enforce that rule.
No reason to cut ourselves off from half the nsfw communities on the fediverse unless we have to.
Even from a legal perspective tolerating this stuff is a no-go.
One of my biggest concerns with these kind of platforms is that they’ll end up being a home for creeps and criminals due to a lack of rule enforcement. I don’t want to be ashamed to use this platform or anyone to suspect me for it.