Hi all! Happy to find this community!
Just wondering if some might be willing to help with some confusion Iâve had.
I was talking to someone here (Masto actually) about the best forms of coffee, and espresso hadnât been mentioned. So I said, how about just espresso ⊠clearly the best form of coffee.
They responded with âI donât like dark roastsâ. And I said it sounds like you just havenât had good espresso and that you donât need to have use dark roasts with espresso, as it can be quite light, floral and fruity. They didnât seem to like what I said and didnât respond.
This person comes from Canada, and I come from Melbourne Aus. From what I know, we have different coffee culture from Canada, or at least used compared to the US. For instance, Iâd never really seen espresso be tightly bound with the âdark roastsâ.
Naturally, being a snob, my impression was that this person and their coffee culture donât know what good espresso can be, but I truly donât know whatâs going on over there.
Any insights?!
EDIT: This conversation was much more polite than this ⊠I was just trying to summarise it and the feeling I had that they didnât quite appreciate that I thought there was more to explore in espresso than what they knew.
Otherwise ⊠thanks to those who answered and more or less confirmed my suspicion that some think espresso must be made from dark-roasts but itâs not true and oneâs understanding is probably due to what theyâve been exposed to.
You must log in or register to comment.
From my understanding espresso beans do tend to be roasted darker to help increase extraction. I know that at least for my manual espresso press I need to use a significantly different recipe to get a nice shot out of light roasted beans.
Broadly though, I do think the cultural idea of espresso is that itâs a small, super intense cup of coffee which in turn implies it being very bitter as thatâs the main coffee flavor people can imagine being intensified. Especially when you consider that a lot of peopleâs idea of espresso likely comes from pod machines which, in my experience, tend to make very bitter shots.
I was genuinely shocked the first time I had a shot of a espresso from an actual coffee shop and the predominant flavor was sour not bitter.
So, yeah, I do think itâs very common for people to associate espresso with dark and bitter coffee.> I said it sounds like you just havenât had good espresso
Edit: FWIW, if youâre looking to actually talk to someone about all this, lines like, âI said it sounds like you just havenât had good espresso,â is not a great way to engender a good conversation.
To be fair to myself, I think I was much more polite than that. I was just trying to get the idea across that I was challenging their idea that espresso=dark-roast and that there seemed to be no where for the conversation to go as neither of us knew where the other was coming from. Iâve never had coffee in Canada nor encountered the espresso=dark-roast idea and the seem to have never had lightly roased or light tasting espresso.
Thanks for the response!
Yea, my local bean supplies often provide lightly roasted beans and often need an adjustment (Iâm using a Flair BTW for manual espresso), but can be really lovely!
I get the sense itâs a bit of a trend in my area at the moment to go for fruity, light-roast, even ânaturalâ beans (dried or roasted with the fruit still on the bean). So much so that my partner doesnât like it as much as I so itâs just reserved for me.
Itâs interesting how so many others associate the bitterness with espresso. I imagine thatâs how theyâve always had it.
I have a few close friends who drink espresso regularly, and they struggle to enjoy any hint of sourness in their cups.
Personally, I wouldnât have said that it sounds like they havenât had good espresso. Iâve had similar conversations (in person), and I used phrases similar to âyeah, I donât really like dark roast, either, and eapressos pulled with dark roasts tend to be too bitter for my taste. However, Iâve pulled some amazing shots from medium and light roasted coffees, with floral and fruity flavor notes that had me question everything Iâve ever thought I knew about espresso.â Then, during one such conversations, I pulled him a shot using some store-brand medium-light I had on hand then. He didnât like it, but admitted that it tastes very different than he expected, which challenged his preconceived beliefs about espresso. So, I didnât convert him to an espresso drinker (he was a tea drinker), but that wasnât really my goal, and he did open his mind to the challenge of the âespresso is dark roastâ mindset. Iâd call it a win.
To be fair, I did have past conversations where I used the phrasing you did, and they didnât go well, so I tried something else with next conversations.
I recommend not entering the conversation with the intention of converting their beliefs, but, instead, with the goal of simply broadening their understanding of the subject.
(Testing multiple images)
A few considerations: the bean type, the roast type, and the creation of the final drink.
From what Ive experienced, Canada is has a dark-roast culture. Iâm from Canada and I never really went out for coffee (just made standard drip coffee with cheap pre-ground) so I remember my first exposure to espresso drinks. I worked shipping/receiving in a small, high-end retail store that had an espresso machine in the back. One of the ladies there used to own a coffee shop and would make me lattes occasionally. One day I was tasked with buying more beans and was specifically told dark roast. The brand they prefered had a medium-roast on a really good sale so I called them up to present the option. I was very sternly told no and when I returned to the store had the idea of a non-dark roast shot down by a couple more employees. It seemed everyone there, ex-coffee shop owner included, were all under the idea espresso was dark roast only. Medium and light roasts were too weak for espresso. Since this was my pre-snob days I just assumed they were right. We also have a very popular roaster in town that has close to a dozen dark and very dark roasts, one medium-dark, one medium, and no light roast. From my conversations with people in my pre-snob days Iâd say 100% of people Iâd brought it up with only purchased dark roast for at home. At one point I switched to medium-roast in a French press and whenever I had guests I was told the coffee was too weak.
Tldr; from my experience non-snob Canadians see a strong tasting dark roast as âproperâ coffee. I feel like a lot of people think theyâre getting more caffeine from it.
Thank you!! This makes sense!
I donât know when it happened, but where Iâm from, light-roasts for espresso definitely became a normal thing at some point. Just yesterday I was in a nearby cafe checking out the beans they sell and there were plenty of ânaturalâ and âlight-roastâ beans. Though that place really do like their fruity espresso. Generally though, weâve developed, even amongst ânon-snobsâ (unless weâre all snobs) an idea of coffee as not needing to be dark etc. Iâd never thought about it before, but Iâd say weâve developed an almost dessert like taste for coffee?
Thanks again for the reply ⊠just what I was hoping for!
Do you have any insight on where the culture comes from?
I know in the case of where I come from (Melb, Australia) that the common understanding is that the majority of our Italian migrants came after WWII, not before, and so we imported a coffee and espresso culture quite different from other Anglo-phonic countries that was also allowed a blank canvass to shape our coffee culture.
If this were an am I the asshole post Iâd say you sound like the asshole. You can talk about things you like without dunking/flexing on others. Clearly not the best form of coffee enthusiasm.
Anyway most regular people, in general, who make espresso, are not using light roasts for it. Of course you can make espresso with any coffee, but light roast espresso also wonât necessarily appeal to everyone who likes a pour over. Just chill.
I mean, maybe I was the asshole. Maybe we were comfortable enough with each other to use language that when taken out of context sounds bad but was just banter in the moment? Some people are rather happy talking to each other the way I outlined the conversation!
Reality is that I was just trying to summarise the conversation and how it hit a dead end once I talked about how espresso doesnât need to use a dark-roast and maybe itâs just not a thing theyâve tried or thatâs done where they are. The language wasnât the point and it was much more polite than my âmockâ of the conversation.
I was just looking for any insights on coffee that I might not have and on variations in coffee culture and lingo around the world.
And while I appreciate feedback on the language, in general, I have to say going around and dunking on peopleâs language in conversations without context and without being open to the possibility that you donât really know what happened and why, is kind of an asshole move in itself. Itâs not hard to just say "Hmmm ⊠maybe they didnât like your language or attitude? On the coffee side though ⊠"
deleted by creator
