To be fair, I didn’t want Biden the first time either. He just happened to be not Trump. I’ll vote Biden again, but I’m not pleased those are my only (real) options. We really need ranked choice voting here in the US…
No one wanted Biden in 2008 either. In 2020 the media kept saying he was the front runner with no evidence to support that… He was behind in polls and if he didn’t win the South Carolina primary he would have dropped out. Everyone would have moved on to Buttigieg or Bernie.
Now we’re essentially in the same place we were in in 2016…
“Who are you excited for?”
“Neither of them.”
I’d vote for an actual potted plant over trump. At least the potted plant hasn’t committed massive fraud, stochastic terrorism, election fraud, attempted coups, been twice impeached, repeatedly bankrupted, and is a fascist to boot.
there’s candidates running that support ranked choice voting. why not vote for them?
Such is the abject failure of most voting systems in use that if you vote for a candidate who has no chance of winning, you’re effectively making it easier for one of the two big candidates to win.
It’s the same in the UK and I hate it.
You may as well vote for the ranked ballot itself…
My hot take:
Biden has been the best President we’ve had in 30 years.
He’s exactly who we needed when we got him. He got us out of Afghanistan. As much as a debacle as it was, he not Trump and not Obama pulled us out. His deft handling of the Ukrainian conflict where he used soft-power and influence to let the EU and NATO members come to decision to enact the super harsh sanctions themselves. Knowing that if the US pressed, they’d resist. It had to be their decision. He’s continued to say and do all of the right things. His attempt to forgive student loans his huge. Some of the measures worked even if all of them didn’t. He got the most meaningful infrastructure bill passed that I’ve ever witness. Neither Trump nor Obama could make it happen and Biden did it with a split Congress That infrastructure bill was also the most meaningful environment legislation that we’ve ever had That bill also paves the way for significant investment in our broad-band across the country Passed the Safer Communities Act …actual gun related legislation since the Brady bill. Again, with a split congress. Gave us our first public defender SCOTUS justice. This might not seem like a big deal but I think its pretty significant given the amount of case law that exists that, so far, hasn’t had a public defenders ‘say’ in it.
I could go on but I gotta go eat dinner.
People want to shit on Biden, but I actually like him. He’s not perfect, but he’s been insanely effective given everything he walked in to. Including him diligently and quietly rebolstering the executive branches that were gutted and had people leaving in droves in the last admin. Eg the Department of State. He’s assigned quality folks into key roles and its making a difference.
I voted for him without hesitation because well, the alternative was terrifying, but I was not expecting much from him at all. He’s surprised me.
edit: I literally can’t figure out how to make this a list. Sorry for the wordblob.
Very well argued. This is quite unrelated but just out of interest, how realistic do you see constitutional reform in the US? Because to me as an outsider, that seems to me to be what US politics sorely needs rn. Is there appetite for it among the electorate? Among the Dems? Could it be conceivably carried out?
I somewhat agree. He’s probably been the best President in the last 30 years but it’s a real low bar. He’s done the bare minimum I would expect a sitting president to actually do. Obama was a disappointment but he got the monster that is healthcare on a decent start. Too bad Trump absolutely gutted it. Should have been made with more longevity but frankly, the real people to blame are solely the Republicans.
That said Biden for a second term isn’t what I want. I barely wanted him for a first term but again, better than the literal reversal of human rights. He’s probably the best president we could have gotten but he’s still a corporate democrat pushing corporate greed. Republicans are the real reason we can’t make any progress in that regard because we have the choice between literal treasonous assholes who diminish human rights for anyone non-white non-male at any costs or we have corporate greed-pushing democrats that just want to keep the ship upright enough to keep making money.
I don’t have a lot of faith in the 2024 election but I know I’ll be voting for whomever the Democrats push forward because no one in their right mind wants the alternative.
Biden has done a better job than I expected, but he should clearly retire. I think this is a huge, and almost necessary opportunity for Democrats. Incumbents are way more likely to get reelected. Since Trump has pissed off too many people, and he’ll sabotage any other front runners for his party.
Wouldn’t it make sense to get someone younger and a little bolder in now for the Dema? They have a very strong likelihood to win this round, and then they’ll be the incumbents next term. We could finally replace some garbage supreme court members.
Because Democrats love losing. This is literally something that has been seen time and time again. They make more money through fundraising when they’re in the minority. They care about nothing but capital.
This would go against Dem’s #1 policy: self-sabotage.
Yeah. I don’t know why the Dems aren’t running someone younger…
I wasn’t thrilled about Biden either, but I think Biden handled negotiations with Europe for Ukraine very well.
But yeah, I get jealous every time I look at other countries’ leadership and see how young they are…
because there isn’t anyone in the party with national name recognition who’d get wide spread support and who is acceptable to the corporate democrats.
Biden was a holdover from the Obama brand. People liked Obama.
Statistically, an incumbent has a huge advantage right out of the gate. Not to mention Biden could splinter the vote which is the worst scenario for a party that holds the seat. I don’t like it either, but Bidens low drama, non-world-ending and still-not-trump platform is the dems safest bet.
I agree! To clarify, what I meant was that I was disappointed that Dems, including Biden, aren’t backing someone younger. Whatever happened to uplifting the next generation?
It’d be easier if he picked a less boring running mate; maybe he could lure in somebody who’d otherwise be inclined to wait for 2028 - Whitmer, say - with a secret promise to resign halfway through his term. (which I hope he plans to do anyway, though he obviously can’t publicize that fact)
Can we have a president like Jacinda Ardern? (Only lasting longer?)
Those same Americans will just ignore that there are other candidates and it’ll be yet another presidential election where 49% of voters claim that they don’t really support the person they vote for, and that you have to do the same as a moral imperative.
And, as it’s been since Reagan, no matter who we elect we’ll only get conservative outcomes.
and that you have to do the same as a moral imperative
Railing against this fact doesn’t magically make it untrue. Not voting for the lesser evil means you don’t care which evil wins. If you legitimately think GOP rule isn’t any worse than Dem rule, then by all means don’t vote or vote third party. But if you think Christian fascism + neoliberalism is worse than just neoliberalism, then once the primaries are over you need to vote accordingly. Voter disenfranchisement is an age-old tactic you’re comment is falling right into.
And I say this all as a market socialist, so don’t for a second think I like the Dems
so don’t for a second think I like the Dems
I’d hope you wouldn’t. On any issue that matters to their voters they’re effectively no different than Republicans. The minimum wage/living wages, housing scarcity, war (and endless funding for it), cost-prohibitive education and health care, equality for queer people, militarization of police, fascism (or ignoring it), gun control, and oddly, we can now add abortion to the list after their response to Roe repeal was to fundraise. (Even though they had control of Congress and the presidency.) They did make a cool 80 million, though, so that’s something: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/democrats-pull-in-80-million-following-supreme-court-ruling-on-roe
I can’t convince myself that voting Democrat is a moral action anymore. That they say nicer things doesn’t matter much when they’re voting records and policies are conservative and regressive. Republicans may stab me in the back but Democrats stab me in the front.
I need more than pretty speeches and broken promises, and really, so does this country.
You’re not voting for Dems, you’re voting to keep Reps out. “My vote won’t help things appreciably progress so instead I’m gonna let things deteriorate” is the argument you’re making. People’s rights are getting stripped because of this kind of apathy
Here’s the trick, if you keep voting dem, you will keep getting worse, Republicans. It’s a cycle that cannot be fixed by voting for the democratic party. The reality is action beyond voting is necessary. But if voting is all we have, then the only path is to attempt to vote for something else, even if it means losing, because losing will happen anyway. The future Republicans will be worse, and the delay by a few years will be moot.
Here’s the trick, if you keep voting dem, you will keep getting worse, Republicans
Completely nonsensical. Republicans have gotten worse because their bid to court the south and unite all Christian denominations under abortion was successful. It’s completely independent from Dems.
The reality is that voting for Dems in federal elections is currently the only option available for fighting Christian nationalists getting voted into federal office. Other options are much more available at the state and local levels
But if voting is all we have, then the only path is to attempt to vote for something else, even if it means losing, because losing will happen anyway.
Yea sorry to burst your bubble but I’m not interested in helping fascists takeover the country. This kind of accelerationist argument only helps the people trying to keep pushing the Overton window to the right. It’s another form of disenfranchisement
Respectfully, you just watched women lose the right to abortion a year ago when Democrats had the presidency and control of Congress. Their response was to use it to raise money, not act in any way to stop it or create positive change.
There are so many more examples of this too.
You voted for deterioration, and so did I. That’s not a matter of opinion, but of historical record.
I’m not sure if you’re just ignorant of the topics you’re bringing up or are actually being disingenuous, but I’m going to act as if you’re being genuine for the sake of other people reading this.
Women lost abortion because R senators fucked with the system while Obama was in office and then pushed another SCOTUS appointment through while Trump was in office. Repealing RvW had literally nothing to do with who was sitting in the oval office and everything to do with Rs abusing the lack of a D supermajority to put corrupt judges on the SCOTUS. With that knowledge taken into consideration here, your argument boils down to “Rs abused the system while a minority and Ds didnt have a supermajority to stop it, therefore I don’t care if Rs gain a majority. Things couldn’t be done to stop the abusers before so idc if the abusers get more power.”
I voted against the US moving towards A Handmaid’s Tale; you’re arguing for who cares if it moves towards A Handmaid’s Tale
Women lost the right to abortion, because of the previous administrations actions and ability to install judges to the federal courts, at all levels, but specifically at the SCOTUS level. Though it alsorequired that cases make it through the federal courts too.
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@storksforlegs @alongwaysgone Have you tried murdering the gays?
@storksforlegs @alongwaysgone Should it be ok to execute gay people? I think so
@alongwaysgone @FlashMobOfOne Women belong in the kitchen
You’re not voting for Dems, you’re voting to keep Reps out
This is what I have to keep telling myself, especially with how utterly feckless Dems have been, and how completely uninterested they are in trying to make things better. Repubs are well on their way in turning this country into a fascist dictatorship, and any roadblock is better than nothing. It’s infuriating and I despise the fact that I voted for Hillary or Biden. But I just have to keep reminding myself it wasn’t a vote for them, it was a vote against Trump.
I really wish we had people we could vote for instead of only focusing on who we have to vote against, but here we are
I really wish we had people we could vote for instead of only focusing on who we have to vote against, but here we are
Agreed, and the way I’ve come to view it is that federal elections aren’t ever going to be making huge waves. It’s a representation of what the system is already moving towards and expecting monumental changes here is unrealistic. Local and state elections, however, is where we can push for legitimate change that eventually cascades up to the federal level. E.g. we need to reach a critical mass of state and local places using alternative voting systems before we have enough momentum to force it at the federal level, since the entrenched parties don’t want it.
Agreed. The best thing is, only one state needs to adopt proportional representation for sending reps to Congress for it to have an impact. Even a small new party with a dozen seats is likely to be a tie breaker.
I really wish we had people we could vote for instead of only focusing on who we have to vote against, but here we are
an important step toward this, if you want something actionable to do, is advocating for voting reform. pretty much any reform away from FPTP will do at this point, although personally i’m partial to working toward mixed-member proportional representation. the organization FairVote prefers RCV; STAR Voting and Equal Vote are both orgs prefer STAR voting for starter orgs in this space. as far as recent switches to novel systems: Fargo and St. Louis have recently switched to approval voting!
You’re a dumbass, democrats have passed tons of legislation to make things better. People just don’t pay attention to it because it’s not exciting.
Perhaps it’s not an outright positive/negative moral action, but I’d call it a moral action in the same way the trolley problem is.
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Your argument is that you’re mad that a political party fundraises and therfore you’ll continue to support conditions that allow fascism to grow?
I mean the gop does the same thing except they also actively take away rights and stoke an environment of stochastic terrorism so…
No.
My argument is that the two parties are functionally the same. You’re voting for fascism no matter which lever you pull. The difference is between perpetrator and collaborator.
This is a ludicrous assessment.
How is a vote for Biden a vote for facsism?
Edit: Sorry, let me clarify. I read your previous remarks. I agree that the democrats (the corporate centrist wing) are more concerned with fundraising and corporate lobbying, doing the neo-liberal bare minimum. You are correct.
But you realize that by sitting out this election you are helping to elect literal authoritarian fascists, yes? Which is worse than shitty neoliberals by a very wide margin.
I appreciate your opinion. I’ve outlined why I feel that way further up in the thread.
Hopefully by 2028 Trump dies so it’s not Trump and his massive-ass base vs the newcomer Dem candidate.
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Hey, maybe DeSantis will put out a hit on him, that will become public, and it’s a 2 birds one stone situation 🥴
vs the newcomer Dem candidate.
Copmala “Prison Slavery is a Valuable Pool of Labor for the State” Harris, you mean?
Ugh I think I’d rather amend the constitution to let biden run again 🤢
Well if we’re amending the constitution to allow corpses to run, might as well just go with FDR or Lincoln
Just get rid of Trump, DeSantis, Marjorie, Ted, Boebert… all republicans and we’ll be fine.
I live in Europe and from the outside it looks like the Republicans stand for everything I hate about the USA
It looks that way from here too.
When when does what Americans want actually effect what America does? Not holding my breath.
As a representative democracy we are doing it wrong when none of the candidates represent the majority. They represent business and special interests that’s it.
The parties don’t care what people want/need. Occasionally putting the lipstick on the pig fools too many people for them to care.
voters select these candidates via primaries and general election, though.
Yeah, just look at the DNC and Bernie. Clearly chosen by the voters and not at all manipulated by the party to get the result they wanted.
unfortunately, he wasn’t chosen by voters when it came to actual primary votes.
You still believe the vote was rigged by the DNC after all these years? Holy shit.
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Name calling isn’t really in the spirit of this instance. You can argue and still be nice.
Oh joy the reddit moral prude police have found the place.
Please protect my delicate ears from the naughty words!
I don’t care about your language, but I do care about how you interact with other users. Be civil.
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Superdelegates serve a valid purpose. If the Republican party had them we might not have been subjected to four years of Trump.
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Do you have evidence to the contrary?
Do you have any idea how influential media is? When you have MSNBC and CNN plus various others talking about how Biden is the only viable option again and again and again, you can’t ignore the influence of that. He won South Carolina after the endorsement of a very popular and influential corporate Democrat there. The media along with the DNC saw that as the opportunity to rally around Biden. Everyone drops out and endorses him, and there you go. I’m oversimplifying a bit for the sake of brevity, obviously, but bottom line, Biden was chosen and supported to defeat Bernie because they couldn’t accept the possibility of a politician like Bernie winning. He was a threat to capital and he was extinguished from the race.
Not to mention the DNC leaked information and ways to sabotage him (ex. Trying to use that he was Jewish against him$
He lost the popular vote by more than 10%.
We’re you paying attention during the primaries? Everywhere pushed the narrative that he couldn’t beat Trump enough that people believed it and voted for Biden in the primaries.
@hihusio @trashhalo @sin_free_for_00_days
Trump saying that the election was stolen in 2020 (rehashing a lie from before 2016 election that if doesn’t win it is fraud)Big Lie: Hillary Clinton is assured to win. Next Big Lie: HRC lost only because of Russians, Susan Sarandon, and Bernie Sanders (ignore the 40 rallies he did to GOTV)
Next Big Lie: Only moderate corporatists could beat Trump, Biden winning 5 states by a margin of victory of less than 100k votes must be ignored
It’s hilarious that you actually believe that.
I believe the vote counts, yes.
Do they though?
funding and party support is one thing. votes are another.
Are leaders chosen exclusively according to the popular will of The People as you would seem to assert, or not?
Are their extrapublic forces fingering the scales?You can’t imply voters are to blame for the parties ignoring their interests and admit other interests manipulate the system to serve their ends.
primary voters vote for the candidate. party elites might have their horse but if the voters go another way, then their horse still loses the race despite the advantage. an outsider candidate could win if they have the votes.
Both parties work for the same owners(wanting or not) so i truly don’t give a fuck about about a Trump-Biden rematch.
GTFO with your both parties are the same bullshit.
Is capitalism and the elite ruling class controlling our society? In a lot of ways, yes. Do the Democratic Party leaders do bad things? Sure.
But the Republican party is actively engaged in taking away people’s rights and freedoms. They prop up unabashed fascists.
Both parties are not the fucking same. And it’s this kind of whataboutism that got Trump elected in the first place.
The ones who rule America is the CIA bud, it doesn’t matter who is the president(it could be a fucking dumb cow anyway), with the actual technology who have the CIA developed it doesn’t give a fuck.
Careful with that tinfoil, you might get cut. Bud.
Fuck, why don’t we just vote for houseplants at this point?
Because it’s difficult to coordinate on the same plant to vote for.
The US sorely needs at least one state to adopt PR for sending Representatives to Washington.
The impressive part is that we have two less popular candidates than Trump and Hillary. And that election had people wishing for a meteor to end the earth.
An anachronistic old white dude vs a corrupt old orange dude. Why is this the best we as a country can do?
It’s because the election system is First Past the Post. If they changed it to Ranked Choice Voting, all candidates from both primaries (plus independents) could run in the election and it would be up to the public to decide which of them is best, with their vote going to a fallback candidate if their favourite doesn’t win.
Well prepare for disappointment, and make it double.
It shouldn’t be shocking that most people want someone better.
