• AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      To be a bit more seriously, I’m not from the US but I’d be very careful. The MAGA movement might very well start rounding up trans people and whoever else they don’t like. Something like a “Kristallnacht”. They absolutely could turn the US into a fascist dictatorship. I hate the neoliberals too but from a tactical viewpoint you really should vote for Biden.

          • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            9 months ago

            The U.S. is already a fascist dictatorship. It just has the luxury to have multiple parties of fascists. If trans people were to be rounded up, neither party would be interested in doing anything to stop it. We know this because literal children are regularly sent to privatized behavioral or conversion therapy camps that are essentially prisons, and neither party is very invested in shutting those down. So fuck off with your moralizing. Biden isn’t strategic, nor is he vegetables, he’s just a different brand of pop.

            • Vncredleader@hexbear.net
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              9 months ago

              Yeah calling a man who is enabling a genocide “vegetables” is the most depraved infantilizing thing. How many dead Palestinians are needed for a healthy democracy meal exactly? That shit is pure evil

            • YourMom [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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              9 months ago

              Hey now, the democrats would absolutely use it as a way to fundraise and get elected. And then… sit on their hands and do half measures because the republicans are so mean and actually control everything! Ahh Lisa Slotkin voted with the fascists but you need to vote for her so the evil republicans don’t control the senate! Oh wow, we don’t have the senate, we just need more money and votes so we can undo all the damage!

          • TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net
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            9 months ago
            CW to protect innocent comrades from ire entirely directed at the above poster

            literally kill yourself, comparing voting for a genocide-enabling, child-caging, wall-building, nazi-arming, abortion-banning rapist who is/was pen pals with Arch-Racist Strom Thurmond to ‘eating your vegetables’ is probably the most disgusting take i have ever witnessed, even from a natoid in the Great Satan. I will gladly eat any ban for saying this, please kill yourself and kill everyone around you, as many as you can, as soon as you possibly can, for the good of the world. If you understood anything about history, geopolitics, or the basics of logical thinking, you would understand the rage i am feeling right now. I wish you and your loved ones a very disembowelment. Happy Valentine’s Day.

          • TheDialectic [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            9 months ago

            When the government starts treating us white people like they have always treated black people I will take comfort in knowing you and I are on the same rotting ship.

      • hamid@startrek.website
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        9 months ago

        The US is currently a fascist dictatorship. Both parties in the US function as a single unit uniparty. Don’t forget they repealed abortion rights under a democrat. The US legislator (Congress) is corrupted and captured and their supreme court is not different from Iran with religious fundamentalists that have lifetime appointments with power to review any case law. It literally doesn’t matter. The Kristallnacht is coming and no voting will stop it, just like voting never stopped the German Nazi’s. Is idea here to just have the Democrats win every election forever?

        • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
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          9 months ago

          While the GOP is definitely become fascist, the US and the democrats is a neoliberal plutocracy, it’s different from fascism (= a belief in inequality based on an mythological and essentialized identity). Say what you want about capitalism but they don’t give a shit about your identity as long as they can sell you things or exploit you. Fascists don’t like capitalism because it’s too egalitarian - they want inequality and classes based on identity not money.

          If you’re an accelerationist you should also consider what the better tactical choice is to bring about a socialist revolution. Fascism is very stable and difficult to overthrow without the support of the military, and the technology to surveil and control people is much more advanced than in e.g. Nazi Germany. And you didn’t have much of a resistance there either.

          their supreme court is not different from Iran

          I love the comparison to Iran’s guardian council. To be fair their model of democracy / theocracy is build around resisting regime change / coup attempts from imperialist influences.

          • hamid@startrek.website
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            9 months ago

            Fascists don’t like capitalism because it’s too egalitarian

            ahahahahahahhahahah

            aaaaahhahahahahahahahahahahzahahahahahaahahah

            aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhaahah moron

              • sammer510 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                9 months ago

                I suggest you literally read anything. You haven’t even read easy stuff like Blackshirts and Reds if you really believe that fascists don’t like capitalism.

                  • sammer510 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                    9 months ago

                    “They took our jobs” isn’t opposition to capitalism it is knee jerk reactionary sentiment. No one who says that actually subscribes to anti capitalist ideology.

                    You need to go back and read Blackshirts and Reds and learn about how fascism ultimately serves the interests of capital. You clearly lack the knowledge and ideological framework to understand this issue.

                  • Vncredleader@hexbear.net
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                    9 months ago

                    That’s not opposing capitalism, that’s opposing globalization. Also that is the outcry fascists sometimes capitalize from, not a policy. Look at how the fascists went from parroting that right wing populist line, to empowering corporations. Mottos are not ideologies, corporatism is WAY more vital to fascism than complaining about immigrants taking jobs

                  • DoiDoi [comrade/them, he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    9 months ago

                    Please read actual historians and / or theory like the already mentioned Blackshirts and reds. Fascism is definitionally capitalism in decay and the capitalist’s violent protection of the remnants against any emerging threats. To suggest that fascists are not capitalists is completely ludicrous.

              • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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                9 months ago

                The entire point of fascism is class collaboration/subordination for the benefit of the capital owners, to suppress labor and stabilize falling profit rates

                It’s precisely the reason Hitler was backed to the hilt by German industrialists

                Brain-dead liberals have always confused certain protectionist measures used by fascist regimes as “anti-capitalist” because many of them have been completely blinkered by the exploded neoclassical conception of capital accumulation, while they ignore the unprecedented privatization campaigns of every fascist regime

                Liberals are forced to believe in a fantasy version of capitalism and then stare in disbelief when the fascists turn out to be more efficient capitalists than they ever were

          • Vncredleader@hexbear.net
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            9 months ago

            Fascists absolutely want classes based on money. Fascism was devised as the union of labor and capital. Mussolini and the Syndicalists wanted to use national identity to “resolve” class contradictions, not make classes into national identities.

          • TechnoUnionTypeBeat [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            9 months ago

            fascism

            egalitarian

            Fascism is an ideology that is practically defined by a constant search for an Other, an outgroup, an underclass it can use as scapegoat. It is literally in a perpetual state of eating its own tail

            Genuinely one of the most baffling things I’ve seen a Lemmyite post here

          • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
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            9 months ago

            Even allowing the distinction, the Democrats fuel fascism by funding far right Republican candidates and fear-mongering over immigrants, China, etc. Capitalists will typically side with fascism to defeat socialism because it allows (most of) them to maintain their status. And fear-mongering about foreigners gives them a scapegoat and distracts from domestic problems, while justifying the corrupt military-industrial complex which allows transferring public funds into private hands. The Democrats are 100% fascist enablers.

        • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
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          9 months ago

          Hindenburg was representing an institution more like the supreme court, similar to how the liberals on the supreme court in the US are currently doing mental gymnastics to allow an insurrectionist to run for president, he allowed Hitler to grab power. I get the joke but it’s actually relevant in another way - failure to oppose fascism by well meaning (or edgy) people.

          • Vncredleader@hexbear.net
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            9 months ago

            Never have I seen someone let Hindenburg off so easily. So what you are saying is you should vote to oppose fascism…so that the institution can then let them into power anyways? Hindenburg WON and he still put Hitler in power. So why vote Biden exactly?

              • Gay_Tomato [they/them, it/its]@hexbear.net
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                9 months ago

                You don’t get to pretend Biden isn’t Hindenburg because you said so.

                Hindenburg WON and he still put Hitler in power. So why vote Biden exactly?

                Answer the question you were asked Ego.

                  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                    9 months ago

                    Biden is literally doing genocide. This isn’t a choice between fascism and liberalism, it’s just respectable fascism and vulgar fascism.

                  • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                    9 months ago

                    No you absolute schmuck. We are not Hindenburg because WE HAVE NO POWER in this system. Like all liberals you are completely allergic to context, which means that while you babble on your mind-numbing cliches like the chat-gpt stooge you probably are, history happens regardless.

          • Gay_Tomato [they/them, it/its]@hexbear.net
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            9 months ago

            My sibling in christ if you let a fascist come to power you are not “well meaning”. The fact that you would even say something so silly implies that facisism is as unthreating to you as it was to them. In your failed attempt to defend voting for liberals to “prevent fascism” you explained exactly why voting for liberals will do nothing to prevent fascism just like it failed in Germany.

              • farting_weedman [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                9 months ago

                Hindenburg put Hitler up as a choice for chancellor and then appointed him chancellor.

                That’s a little different than what you’re suggesting.

                Throughout the history of the Weimar Republic there are many examples of presidents using their emergency powers in big ways.

                I think saying that president is a figurehead position with no real power is pretty indefensible. We have well documented examples of presidents wielding lots of power and the specific one we’re talking about famously used his political power to put Hitler next in line.

                It’s doubly damning that you’ve brought this up as a defense of voting for Biden when one extremely shallow but nonetheless true reading of the events after Hindenburgs election is “don’t elect senile politicians to office if you want to defeat fascism!”

      • TechnoUnionTypeBeat [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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        9 months ago

        Hi

        Several US states basically have trans laws that amount to rounding up trans people already, these laws passing within the last year or two

        Who’s the current sitting president again? What party does he represent?

      • chickentendrils [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        9 months ago

        Hey, we can apply longtermism too (and it won’t even be that long, maybe a few decades) and say “That’s unfortunately pretty likely no matter the timeline or specifically who gets elected when.” Maybe if it happens in 2025-6 instead of 2045-6 there’ll be less people around to genocide, and we might get a resolution to it quicker.

        The US is certain to become a blatantly authoritarian state down the road, it is completely unsustainable and dependent on militarily destroying other places to launder money to its ruling class, then extracting surplus value from those places in the aftermath. It’s currently a heavily obfuscated fascist state, at least to most observers just struggling to get by under its propaganda and the arcane systems it and its collaborators have created.