Florida is on the verge of passing one of the nation’s most restrictive bans on minors’ use of social media after the state Senate passed a bill Thursday that would keep children under the age of 16 off popular platforms regardless of parental approval.
The measure now goes back to the state House, where the speaker has made the issue his top priority during the legislative session that ends March 8. Still, critics have pointed to similar efforts in other states that have been blocked by courts.
The bill targets any social media site that tracks user activity, allows children to upload material and interact with others, and uses addictive features designed to cause excessive or compulsive use. Supporters point to rising suicide rates among children, cyberbullying and predators using social media to prey on kids.
I can’t get over how this “limited government” party has gone from supporting parental rights and promoting family values to becoming fascists.
To be clear, there’s a ton of good to be said about preventing kids from using social media. Still, this should be up to the parents and, imo, all parents should limit or restrict it.
Isn’t this same as the cigarette and alcohol ban for minors, I hear you ask? No. Alcohol and cigarettes can be purchased from a shop. The government isn’t explicitly telling parents the kids can’t consume them, it’s banning the sale to minors. Social media and cell phones aren’t really something a 14 year old can get at a store or happen upon at a party. So, if smoking was legal and the parent restricted their 14 year old from smoking, it wouldn’t be too difficult for the kid to get a pack of their own. Social media is different. And shouldn’t involve government restrictions. Because, how the F is the government going to oversee and reprimand this?
how the F is the government going to oversee and reprimand this?
By requiring the platforms to verify the age of their users with identity checks and government ID. I’d bet the 16 cutoff age is because that’s the age when teens get either driver’s licenses or state ID cards.
Make no mistake, this has nothing to do with protecting kids. It’s entire aim is to tie online accounts to real life users.
The thing is online access can happen anywhere and because hardware is firmly in the hands of the user, the user controls the dissemination of the data. There’s plenty of AI out there that can generate valid driver licenses with complete PDF417 barcodes related to the state in question.
There’s no way Florida is going to commit the required funds it would take to police every single aspect. And social media sure as shit isn’t going to bend over and have that policing thrown onto to them freely. At some point Florida will require telephone carriers and ISP to play ball to some degree and then POOF, you’re now in Federal territory.
That’s why all this state level law making is so bunk. It’s not a problem that can be solved by just saying “Oh, well <16 yo cannot get on.” Unless the State has some really deep pockets to invest in their own technology, Good Luck playing wack-a-mole.
Additionally, there’s zero ways I would be scanning a driver’s license into some random website. Not with how every other day they leak massive amounts of information. So a lot of these states start getting what pornhub and what not are doing, “Oh you’re from Utah? Okay, well I guess you’re paying for a VPN for your porn.” And that’s ultimately what happens. Everyone just starts using a VPN because the State wanted to pass some “token” law to look like they were doing something.
It’s all people ignorant of how technology works attempting to legislate technology. They are never going to be successful in any of this, but I guess whatever plays well for your base.
If spineless liberals let Republicans get away with this shit, and they are, they can do whatever they want. You have to actually stop them
How do you suggest Claifornia Liberals stop Florida Republicans from doing this? Floridians literally voted for this to happen in their own state. If anything I say go at it and van all the kids up to 18. That’ll make sure a lot of them get pissed at Republicans and vote against them out of spite. I feel sorry for them because they can’t do anything to change it but maybe once they’re old enough they’ll be able to.
Then they can very easily create a registry of whatever they want. Someone put pronouns in their bio that don’t match their ID? On a list. Someone signed up for a dating app with their government ID and they’re looking for same-sex partners? On a list. It doesn’t even have to stop there, though that’s definitely where it’s starting. Say on social media that you’re am atheist? On a list. Use your social media presence to criticize the government? You guessed it, on a list.
So how come pornhub doesn’t provide ID check? I doubt that’s actually gonna happen…
They can already do that just through whatever back doors they can get into social media companies if the corps don’t already just give them the data.
What this is about is shutting young folks up online because they’re the most vocal opponents of stuff like the don’t say gay bill.
Personally I’m for government issued universal ID, and I think the government should provide a secure verification API, but I don’t think this because I think there should be age restrictions, I think it because I think it’d be a viable solution to mass botting. Something like 2FA being mandatory would also help so that just stealing someone’s card doesn’t automatically give you access to all their shit.
Fuck off with the ID bullshit
It’s a viable solution to mass botting in the same way that burning down your fucking house is a viable solution for that spider that disappeared behind your headboard.
How is that even a remotely accurate comparison?
It’ll work, but it is complete overkill, and has far more harmful side effects than benefits.
Exactly what harmful side effects are there here? It makes blocks and bans more effective, it significantly cuts down sock puppeting and mass botting, it renders engagement manipulation much more difficult, and it requires literally zero 1984 surveillance state shit, I mean unless you’re one of those quacks who thinks a state ID is 1984 surveillance shit despite it literally just making literally everything about securing state services more accessible including obtaining licenses and benefits.
literally just making literally everything about securing state services more accessible including obtaining licenses and benefits.
When did “blocks and bans” become a “state service”?
I have a place you can shove your ID idea. Want me to show you?
Simple, it’s not really about the kids, it’s about control of the internet.
They learned from FOSTA that people will not fight internet censorship bills if they’re targeted at vulnerable minorities.
I fundamentally agree that this would best be served by parents enforcing limits.
However, my experience is that this kind of parenting is much much harder than people seem to understand.
If you’re one of a small number of parents who choose to limit social media, in a sea of parents who don’t limit at all, your children end up socially excluded. They get made fun of and ostracized from the rest of the kids. Your parenting decision makes their daily life much, much harder than it should be.
In practice, it means that as a parent there is no winning option. Or even really acceptable option.
For maybe the first time in my life, I feel myself siding with the government restrictions option.
Do you have any idea how easy it is to bypass a law like this?
Anytime the government says they are doing something to help the children, it is most likely an extreme infringement on the rights of non children.
Yeah, it’s not really teaching kids not to use it, but it will be a great teacher for how to bypass internet blocks. Young people already lie about their age on platforms, I mean I did that when I was younger.
It’s only a few steps further to change DNS or VPN to an area that allows underage and doesn’t require strict age verification.
Most laws are fairly easy to bypass. You can jaywalk all day, purchase illegal fireworks, drive your car at ridiculous speeds, etc.
Should we just stop trying because some people choose to break the law?
If even half of parents complied it would make it so very much easier to say no to social media for your own children. It would also provide a very tangible excuse for why you’re saying no.
You can jaywalk all day
Is it illegal?
Yep, at least everywhere that I have lived.
Carhell
You can’t regulate your own children, so you think it makes sense to try and regulate all children.
Whatever dude. Stop trying to pass laws “for the children”. It’s b.s
I’m not sure if you’re intentionally being obtuse or you just didn’t actually read my original post above. Either way, I’ll invite you to take a second read.
Sometimes it is difficult to see a whole thread on Lemmy for me. If I have taken anything out of context that stinks but happy Saturday
imo, all parents should limit or restrict it.
In general, perhaps—but in this case, restricting kids from social media will just increase their level of exposure to Florida.
What if their parents are controlling and abusive?
Social media and cell phones aren’t really something a 14 year old can get at a store or happen upon at a party
Internet cafés, libraries and friends?
Still, this should be up to the parents and, imo, all parents should limit or restrict it.
Just to be clear, you’re okay with the rapidly-rising suicide rate from children of parents who already choose not do so? Even though there’s no sign of a wide improvement in parenting or social media literacy?
I would have killed myself without unmonitored internet access, and many other teens are in the smart boat, the same ones Republicans want to kill
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There’s already a mechanism for bad parenting: take their kids away.
I’m not responsible for bad parenting, and it’s not an acceptable reason for bad legislating.
What’s your policy solution or position?
This is a plot by Christian groomers to isolate their victims
It also cuts kids off from voices of reason that might contradict their religious and conservative indoctrination.
And prevent adults from criticising elected officials anonymously. That’s the real play.
Won’t those people just deny their children access to the internet, regardless of whether such a law exists?
Old internet was absolute anarchy and it was better for it. There was a lot of fucked up shit out there but there werent algorithms manipulating you, sites tracking you, and purposely trying to sow discord for engagement. It was a more like a marketplace with a seedy section that you could visit if you were brave/stupid but you could happily just chill on your niche RC airplane forum if you wanted. The modern internet is more like a pushy used car salesman following you around telling you where to look and a cop following you around too.
Rather than banning social media for kids, we should be banning sites from implementing algorithms on them and tracking them. Frabkly, I’d like to see that for everyone, but its an easier political sell to protect kids from the predatory practices.
I remember the old internet as a refuge from the real world where I could be a sensitive nerd and I wouldn’t get bullied for it. Cutting off access to outside ideas and communities for youth is a mistake. It also breaks any semblance of anonimity on the internet; how do you do age verification without having to upload an ID?
Old internet was absolute anarchy and it was better for it.
The old internet still exists. DIY websites and usenet groups and people with shitty opinion blogs continue to populate the space. https://slashdot.org/ still exists. Fucking 4chan.org still exists. I think you can even find goats.ex if its not entirely blacklisted by everyone by now.
But finding them is increasingly difficult simply because so much of the modern OS and native search environment are stuffed with hyper-advertised heavy hitters and spam.
Rather than banning social media for kids, we should be banning sites from implementing algorithms on them and tracking them.
The EU has had some mixed success with this approach, but largely because so much of the tech sector (and its attendant lobbying power) is concentrated in the US rather than Brussels. As soon as folks start getting paid off, the regulatory environment evaporates.
I remember the old internet as a refuge from the real world where I could be a sensitive nerd and I wouldn’t get bullied for it.
The smaller social hubs on Discord and Mastadon (and Hexbear and Lemmy) still absolutely let you do that. Hell, you can find it on the niche communities and groups of Reddit and Facebook, if that’s still your jam. Bluesky is also very small and niche right now, so you can have a good time over there for at least the moment.
But a lot of that is building a relationship with a handful of other consistent users. The sheer volume of people and content on the bigger sites (combined with the endless bot swarms and marketing goons) makes everyone a faceless voice in the fog.
That leads us to John Gabrield’s Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory
That leads us to John Gabrield’s Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory
I don’t have comments on the rest of your post, but I absolutely hate how that cartoon has been used by people to justify that they are otherwise “good” people who are simply assholes on the internet.
The rebuttal is this: This person, in real life, chose to go on the internet and be a “total fuckwad”. It’s not that adding anonymity changed something about them, they were the fuckwads to begin with, but with a much lower chance of having to be held accountable, they are free to express it.
I absolutely hate how that cartoon has been used by people to justify that they are otherwise “good” people who are simply assholes on the internet.
Ha! Imagine using that as a defense.
This person, in real life, chose to go on the internet and be a “total fuckwad”.
There’s an argument that the internet just draws this out of you, because of your insatiable desire for attention. And the comic is a warning to check yourself before you wreck yourself.
But I cannot imagine the dipshit with cajones large enough to claim being an asshole online proves you’re not an asshole in real life. Incredible.
I have been able to find niche old-internet communities here on Lemmy ex: the instance I’m posting this from. If this bill goes through, will these instances also be similarly regulated? I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t see why they would be somehow exempt.
If this bill goes through, will these instances also be similarly regulated?
Unlikely, since they’re niche and under the radar.
Just thought I’d point out that a queer kid with religious parents has an opportunity to find other queer kids and allies via social media.
Should social media do more to ensure child safety? Sure. Is that the reason for Florida doing this? Florida caring about child welfare? What do you think?
I think it is age discrimination and about collecting more data. If they really cared children, they could ban collecting everyone’s data.
They don’t want their kids to be able to figure out how fucked Florida is.
I somehow doubt most kids under 16 are that versed in local/state/national/global affairs. Nevermind that they can’t vote.
Mote and more are these days, since they have access to information and directly impacted
This is just another act of cutting off kids from information.
I feel like someone said why bother banning books at school when they can just access that information online? And they said you’re right, let’s figure out how we can ban that too
I love the party of “small government” fighting to control what websites your children can visit. You know it’s the same people that spent all of 2020 and 2021 screaming about how they shouldn’t be forced to wear a mask or get a vaccine.
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My immediate reaction was… hmm, fuck it, protect the kids, I can get onboard… And then I remembered the lonely parts of my childhood being better because of irc, BBSs, icq, aol warez groups, etc. “but it’s a different world now”… Is it though? Now we have browser history and more forensics. Old Internet was really fucked up. For God’s sake, we could get Faces of Death in the video store before we were 12, and kids had playboy on the bus. The bullying thing is worse for sure. Online was a place for the kids who got bullied to get away. Now it’s a bullhorn. Actually conflicted on this.
The old Internet was somewhat anonymous. The pervasive tracking and enragement algorithms made it so that nearly every platform is someone’s real identity. I’d argue that’s what’s a mistake for children…having them on Internet platforms attaching their real name and identity to online bullshit.
100%! That’s been my solution to date. In order: Keep kid offline Keep logged out If required, anon af username etc, never repeated across apps or games
The government shouldn’t regulate what information someone is allowed to consume. If a parent doesn’t want their kid on social media, that is their choice. The answer is simple to me, stop taking away people’s freedom of choice.
Okay. I get that argument. But it’s not a response to my comment. I’m talking about making sense of nuance and you’re responding broadly about all people. Okay… so… anyway… about my actual conundrum…
Fwiw you can make that argument about csam and snuf. Whether illegal to post, you would opt out of a world where that stuff is blocked?
Then they’ll create a state-funded youth social media platform moderated by Matt Gaetz
Don’t Estonia and Ukraine basically have that but it’s also a one stop for government services and programs? Save Matt Gaetz that actually sounds like a pretty dope way to get folks more involved with local government in the tech age tbch.
To get the joke, focus more on the implied audience and that Matt Gaetz is a pedophile.
“Florida gets closer to becoming a top market for VPNs”
Honestly VPNs are getting pretty shitty lately. Some sites have done complete bans on them.
I just don’t use those sites. They have nothing I actually need. I’ll find out somewhere else or just forget it.
Some banks are blocking them. Some government websites are too.
And I’m sure this won’t be like those “click here if you are over 18” buttons that I definitely never clicked when I was underage. Nope. We all know kids aren’t rebellious.
And they definitely wouldn’t lie about their birth date to make an account
Feels odd to know I’ll be able to truthfully click those in a few days.
Can’t believe I’m gonna say this but…good job Florida?
Yeah, I’m not used to this emotion either.
This will require a driver license for every social media account. Adios anonymous political discourse.
Probably just a side effect no doubt.
Exceedingly rare Florida W
They’ve gone so far to the right that they accidentally did a leftism.
300% right makes a left, or some such math
Because that’s what young people need, more ways to be excluded from society and isolated.
I think they underestimate how capable kids are of making their own damn platforms. With blackjack and hookers.
This is Gen Alpha we are talking about. They have displayed less IT/programming/computer literacy awareness than even Gen Z. There will have to be a new computer Renaissance era to pop up, otherwise they are going to have to ask their Gen Y/X family to do it.
They have displayed less IT/programming/computer literacy awareness than even Gen Z.
Have they? I see plenty of them out and about doing all the same shit Millennials and GenXers were doing 30 years ago - building computers from parts to save money, fucking around with electronics and sticking leds on everything, experimenting with python and downloading shit off torrents, and occasionally bricking a phone because they did something to the firmware.
I also see folks insisting 10 year olds should have the same experience as a college grad, which is a bit weird. But I’m hard pressed to find these bad-at-computers Gen Zs/As.
It’s just different now, sure some may have taken an interest. My optimal experience/computer fitness would have been as a high school senior, not as a college grad. In high school I was fluent in a few different older programming languages, web development of HTML/CSS from scratch, just received an A+ Certification, and could solder out components with the dexterity of someone who does it professionally.
I have retained some of that, and could research myself if needed. But I couldn’t code my way out of a cardboard box at this point. Coworkers are amazed, aghast even that I can and will use VBA in excel.
And all of that was a hobby really, I had no interest working with tech. I wanted to go into finance, or so I thought. And this would have described every other one of my peers back then as well.
I remember when the genX generation said that about me.
Sure may have been right about 90% of folks, but the 10% that were wrong… I absolutely did figure out a lot of script kiddie shit that got me in trouble and now as a “lazy millennial” doing cool shit.
Survival off the fittest. Only the kids who havnt had their entire frontal lobe scrambled my constant iPad use can get on socials.
