• something_random_tho@lemmy.world
      638·
      9 months ago

      The problem is the only alternative (on phones) is handing over all my data to Google, the world’s largest ad company. I’m not sure that’s better…

      Desktop is easy. Install Linux. But on phones, there’s 2 bad realistic choices.

        • toastal@lemmy.ml
          494·
          9 months ago

          If you skip GApps & install a custom ROM, chances are banking & government apps won’t work… & you see some places removing their websites forcing users into the app duopoly… which is why web apps matter.

          • goatmeal
            161·
            9 months ago

            FWIW I’ve got grapheneOS without google play services on a financial profile, and all of my financial apps work including: -Two credit card apps -Bank app -Three investing apps -Two direct transfer apps

            One of the credit cards apps (amex) does give a “warning” on each page that it needs play services to function but if I click Ok it actually still just works.

            • toastal@lemmy.ml
              43·
              9 months ago

              You are also locked to a Pixel device so GG if you want features Pixels do not offer

          • Rose@lemmy.world
            152·
            9 months ago

            Worth trying first. In my experience, almost every app works without the Google store. You can also block the internet access for any Google service or app via its settings.

          • GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
            81·
            9 months ago

            The best middle ground is probably GrapheneOS with sandboxed Google Play Services. At that point, most things “just work” and you can at least mitigate Google’s spyware.

            • toastal@lemmy.ml
              184·
              9 months ago

              Middle ground option has a weirdo author & is limited to Google’s Pixel line only (which eliminates one of the best parts about Android vs. iOS: device variety so you can find something specific to your needs)

                • TotalSonic@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  5·
                  9 months ago

                  Sony Xperia 10 iii has all those things, and you can run Sailfish OS on it, including VoLTE and Android app support with it.

                • toastal@lemmy.ml
                  4·
                  9 months ago

                  Crazy how these went from standard features to niche in a generation. Like a sibling comment mentioned, I picked up an Sony Xperia III 5 with microG for Lineage OS installed (tho I swap OLED + <6" screen for your front-facing speaker requirement). Stupidly, not-rooted I still can’t run banking apps since custom ROMs are dangerous (but make me safer). Ironically, the banking apps I would use have trackers in them since it’s their security/privacy that matter, not mine.

              • TotalSonic@lemmy.worldEnglish
                4·
                9 months ago

                Yeah, which is why I use de-googled “vanilla” Bliss ROM 17.2 (Android 14 with latest security patch) on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 Pro instead of going the Graphene or Calyx + Pixel route. This way I have the hardware features I wanted (headphone jack, micro SD card slot, 5000mAh battery, 108mp camera, stereo speakers, 120mHz refresh rate) all for cheaper than a Pixel, and the Bliss ROM community is pretty friendly and dedicated in my interactions with it.

                • Quastamaza@lemmy.ml
                  2·
                  9 months ago

                  is your phone still officially supported by the oem with security patches? Because if not, no custom rom update can have the full range of security patches.

                  • TotalSonic@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    2·
                    9 months ago

                    There are “vanilla” versions (which is what I use) that are basically de-googled AOSP which work well with apps from F-droid, Izzy-on-droid, and free apps from Aurora stores, which you can also install MicroG on if you wanted to - and there are “Gapps” versions which have Google Play Services, the Google Play Store and some of the basic Google apps pre-loaded.

          • TotalSonic@lemmy.worldEnglish
            22·
            9 months ago

            In USA I’ve found it’s pretty easy to live without banking on your phone, although you can’t say the same for some other countries. Granted I have a job where I am working with my own desktop computers most of the day, so I can pay bills and transfer funds on them during those times - and lots of people might not have the same luxury. But I’ve yet to feel a need for any of them while out and about beyond a few occasions of Venmo’ing funds on the go - and at least Venmo still allows you to use their site via browser.

            • toastal@lemmy.ml
              11·
              9 months ago

              Venmo is a VC-funded social media (weirdly) + money transfer app which takes a cut for doing like nothing just because you want your cash instantly. Many other countries have built-in bank-to-bank transfers with no fees or wait time & other that there’s no money to extract from this, I don’t know why it doesn’t exist in the US.

              Where I live, cash is luckily still king (no one uses credit & if you do, you are (rightfully) paying the credit card fee yourself), but more vendors are starting to prefer QR code payments & this year one of the banks leading the trends eliminated their online banking forcing you to use an app or do cash.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
          91·
          9 months ago

          And this is why I’m getting a Pixel for my next phone, it’s the only phone line GrapheneOS works on, and it has a nice long support cycle.

          I wish it was available on more phones though. I know there are other projects, but they don’t seem as well run as GrapheneOS.

          • okamiueru@lemmy.world
            3·
            9 months ago

            Been using pixel phones for that reason, since… Pixel XL, and six pixel phones since then. Used several different AOSP based OS-es, most recently CalyxOS on Pixel 4a, and then GrapheneOS on Pixel 6a and now the 8 Pro.

            Everything works, and you can choose how much of Google you invite back in. The best part is that the Google stuff doesn’t get any special treatment. Which means that the Pixel Camera app and Google Photos isn’t allowed access to Internet, because why should it?

            The only thing that is still fundamentally flawed, are remote push notifications. And I don’t mean that it’s flawed for GeapheneOS, they work fine. It’s flawed in the sense that information goes through Google or Apple. The privacy concerns there are significant. It’s not end-to-end encrypted. You cannot avoid the problem either by disabling them on your phone. Each application, be that a Ring Camera, or backend messaging system, etc, that sends the stuff to Google through notification apis, will do so regardless of how much you sandbox or disable those services on the phone-receiving end. Conveniently, there is no effort by Apple or Google to make this core functionality any less tied to Apple or Google. The “asynchronous” nature makes it a problem that needs to be solved for each and every backend service system, for remote notifications. Some privacy conscious apps/services might let you limit what is sent to Google so you only get “New message from Hubbie” instead of also “Hubbie: remember to buy the paint for the baby-room! I’m so excited”.

            Anyways… Not sure why I went on such a long tangent. I was done pooping a while ago.

            CalyxOS on a Pixel is as great as it currently gets. But stuff can get better.

          • daq@lemmy.sdf.org
            36·
            9 months ago

            Pixel is garbage hardware though. I’m on pixel 7 pro now and it is the worst phone I’ve ever had. Shit battery life, shit reception, shit processor that lags constantly, absolute shit Bluetooth chip that randomly disconnects in crucial moments when I’m on important calls or REALLY need android auto. This phone is only good at taking pictures and the fact that I get exclusive spam filtering features. We badly need another alternative.

            Also fuck Google.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
              1·
              9 months ago

              Really? What are you comparing it to?

              The problem is that options are very limited for privacy-respecting ROMs. I honestly don’t care about the camera, but I very much want to avoid both Google and Apple software nonsense, and Bluetooth is also pretty important to me.

              My current phone (Moto G Power) is a piece of crap, but it’s reasonably consistent in most regards. I’m interested in the Google Pixel 8a (assuming they release one), and I only want it to get GrapheneOS and a few years of security updates. I don’t expect a ton from my phone (I don’t play games, or use any intense apps), but Bluetooth, battery life, and privacy are very important. Unfortunately, Linux phones aren’t reliable at all, otherwise I’d just go that route.

              • sloppy_diffuser@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                1·
                9 months ago

                I’m running GrapheneOS on a 7 pro. Battery isn’t great, but I’ve not had any major issues… At 44% with about 2 hours screen time and 16 hours since last charge. Downloaded a bunch of updates including a system update / reboot / optimize. Listened to a few hours of music over Bluetooth. Also forgot to shutoff location services after using the GPS last night. Bluetooth connected Garmin watch. Dual e-sim (Fi and JMP).

                I normally end the day around 60%.

                You might checkout DivestOS. Last I heard they had e-sim support without needing to install any of Google’s software. GrapheneOS didn’t have this feature when I got this phone. If its not on GrapheneOS when I upgrade next I plan to try and get the e-sim on with it before installing GrapheneOS.

              • daq@lemmy.sdf.org
                11·
                9 months ago

                My previous phone was OnePlus 8 pro and 5t before that. Both still work more reliably than this pixel.

                I did hear that Pixel 8 pro is a better phone but I don’t think Tensor will ever be as good as Qualcomm’s offerings.

                I’m not one of the people willing to sacrifice convenience for privacy. I really like Android auto and Google pay so imnho Android phone is useless without Google services, but I agree that there are simply no good alternatives at the moment, so I’ll probably get another pixel when I smash this one against the wall from frustration.

                • LoveSausage@lemmy.ml
                  2·
                  9 months ago

                  Your issues is about stock OS not hardware. And yea shit works without that or gapps.

                  Android auto works on GOS with sandboxed playservice.

                  So your “convenience” is just laziness to actually look it up.

                  For those who don’t want the huge inconvenience of no gpay and have to use their cards. Any ROM like lineage for example with gapps on it.

                  • daq@lemmy.sdf.org
                    1·
                    9 months ago

                    I do love how you dismissed my “inconvenience” and then immediately said that one of the two things I listed is a

                    huge inconvenience of no gpay and have to use their cards

                    Looks like AA is a fairly recent addition to apps that work on GrapheneOS and GPay will never work.

                    I wonder if I set up GPay on my watch and then switch to GrapheneOS if it’ll still work?

        • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
          5·
          9 months ago

          Depends on the phone you get. You have to “do your own research” and figure beforehand which phones even allow you to install a custom ROM or different OS, like LineageOS, and evaluate if the steps required to do so (and risk of bricking) are worth the trouble. The worst part is that this shit is difficult on purpose, much like how, by default, Android won’t let you uninstall bloatware, only “disable” it.

      • LeroyJenkins@lemmy.world
        136·
        9 months ago

        almost every apple user says shit like this while using Gmail, Google docs, and the Google app on their phone and blindly giving Apple their data. let’s be real for a sec and not pretend most Apple users give a flying fuck that Google tracks them. if a user truly cared about privacy, they would eventually come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter Apple or Google, privacy means not giving your data to ultra mega corps. so owning an iPhone isn’t adequate for privacy either. both googled Android and iOS give your data back to their respective companies. neither are good for your privacy. one day when Apple start changing their tune on privacy policies, Apple fan boys who have put their their whole lives into the apple ecosystem will realize they put all their eggs in one basket.

        • Fly4aShyGuy@lemmy.one
          21·
          9 months ago

          Have any evidence that both are the same regarding privacy or just your personal feelings?

          one day when Apple start changing their tune on privacy policies

          I don’t think this is a fair point, unless someone was making the claim that Apple is some benevolent do-good company out of the kindess of their own hearts. No one really makes those claims though, I think most who choose their products for privacy reasons simple thing they are better than the other of the main 2 options, and that like any corporation needs to be watched closely. Just because I chose an Apple device at this time does not mean I advocate that they will always be a better choice for privacy (or any number of characteristics someone may care about when choosing a phone).

          almost every apple user says shit like this while using Gmail, Google docs, and the Google app on their phone

          Again, just your feelings. Maybe statistically it’s even true that most do, but at least there is a choice on these things. I can and do avoid all of these, the only things I load from google are tracking scripts embedded in websites that make it through several layers of blocking.

          privacy means not giving your data to ultra mega corps

          Not sure this is true, surely there are large corporations that are at least better than others with regard to privacy. It would be especially foolish to assume the inverse of this, that just because a company is small that they will respect privacy or act better.

          • LeroyJenkins@lemmy.world
            11·
            9 months ago

            I work as a mobile dev. particularly in ad-tech and security. at my comp, marketers spend 10x more on ads to iOS than Androids in the US. meaning, more advertisers come to us and tell us we want us to target more iOS users with the budget.

            and most do consider apple the benevolent do-good company and many do make the claim. Apple uses privacy as marketing and the result is many people blindly trust them and their devices or at least assume the competition is flagrantly out to get them. you seem to have your pulse on things but that’s not true for most iPhones users, even those who say they care about privacy.

            you also can’t say it’s my feelings and then say it’s probably statistically true at the same time lol it’s is true and most people on ios still use Google front and center on their mobile experience.

            while you’re not sure if that’s true, I AM sure it’s true. privacy means your data stays with you. period. the best option is not giving people your data to begin with.