I’m not commenting on the legality or appropriateness or intelligence of either invasion, but on the nature of the goals behind them.
One was an attempt at forcing a regime change, the other was an attempt at regime elimination and annexation of territory.
Both can and should be criticized, but not for being the same thing. They weren’t.
Could we call them different flavours of imperialism, though?
Words like this are fun for schoolkids but don’t say anything at all about what was actually done. It’s an effort to take something phenomenally complex and reduce it to a slogan. Slogans are good for fostering outrage, but not much else, and they distract attention from detail. Leave slogans to politics, not history.
I always welcome being condescended upon. Thanks.
If that’s what you want to take from it, it’s up to you. That was not my intention. What I said is entirely true.
It makes me feel old that this is a c/history question.
I think the situations in both of the invader countries is comparable. A small minority of us actively stood up against the obvious propaganda used to justify the Iraq War. We faced some repression from the state, particularly given all of the power-grabbing under the Patriot Act and similar legislation and Bush’s executive orders. But the US still has notional free speech, balance of powers, and rule of law, so most US protesters didn’t face nearly the level of repression as Russian dissidents do.
The responses abroad I think were pretty different. This can largely be chalked up to the US being the sole superpower after 89-91. There were huge protests around the world to the Iraq War. I remember the one in Berlin was particularly large. But despite the massive unpopularity in Western Europe, those governments still joined the “coalition of the willing”. Sanctioning the US would have been unthinkable given its economic status. Russia is far less essential to the world economy. The main thing they have going for them is natural gas exports.
Western views of Iraq and Ukraine were also quite different. Nobody really liked the Saddam Hussein regime (though the US was willing to work with him in the 80’s!). But that didn’t make regime change a good idea. Ukraine has been viewed more favorably as a fledgling liberal democracy. No one would deny it hasn’t had its problems, but it’s preposterous to claim Ukraine is beholden to Neo-Nazis when they have a Jewish president.
The responses of the global left have also been markedly different. In 2003 we were all united in opposing what was clearly an unjustified war of aggression. These days a lot of the Anglophone left has been captured by Russian soft power/ psy ops, despite Russia not even pretending to be communist at this stage. I’ve had to call out a lot of people for repeating Russian talking points that were used to justify the war. The German Linke (Left) party is currently split over their positions on the war. Even weirder is that the far right in the US and Europe are also claiming the title of “anti-war” by tacitly or openly supporting Russia’s actions.
In the US there was a minority against the war. It was pitched to us for three different reasons: First as a response to 9/11, then as a search for WMDs, then as a regime-change maneuver to liberate the Iraqi people.
Naturally, some saw this shotgun blast of reasonings with suspicion, particularly when it was a petroleum-rich country that his father had been involved in a war with.
However, 9/11 had shocked most Americans out of the banal complacency of the 90’s. Just for some context for how we respond emotionally to such shocks, I would direct you to one of our most famous leaders in history, and his famous Date Which Will Live In Infamy speech. Skip to 2:00 and listen for about a minute, and you will come away with exactly how we respond to such things:
As a result, the invasion had a broad amount of public support in our country. Someone, somewhere, was gonna get fucked up. We just got pointed at the wrong guy in our heated emotional state.
And let‘s not forget that the claim, that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, was a lie.
And lets not forget that world leaders and the “free world” were emotionally manipulated by a “nurse”:
The Nayirah testimony was false testimony given before the United States Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990, by a 15-year-old girl who was publicly identified at the time by her first name, Nayirah. The testimony was widely publicized and was cited numerous times by U.S. senators and President George H. W. Bush in their rationale to support Kuwait in the Gulf War.
In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah’s last name was Al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيرة الصباح) and that she was the daughter of Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Furthermore, it was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of the Citizens for a Free Kuwait public relations campaign, which was run by the American public relations firm Hill & Knowlton for the Kuwaiti Government. Following this, al-Sabah’s testimony has come to be regarded as a classic example of modern atrocity propaganda.
In her testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, remove the incubators and leave the babies to die. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony)
And lets not forget that world leaders and the “free world” were emotionally manipulated by a “nurse”
Interesting! This is the first time I hear of her. In your opinion, how much of an effect did her testimony have on the 2003 invasion of Iraq?
