You have the right idea, the “Cascadia” bit is a shortcut to actual progressive discussions about what it may actually take to make good things happen. We’re doing it right now, even. It’s not meant to be totally serious (unless it actually becomes a thing, but by then it’s way out of our hands anyway).

Proto Cascadian identity (while working toward “socialism with Cascadian Characteristics”) will need to be formed as an extension of indigenous liberation. Half the liberals already can see the farce of land acknowledgments that they do at every city council meeting, but this is what it might look like to see real action. It forms a path to anti-colonialism since even land acknowledgements directly call it occupied land.

Progressive liberals are vulnerable to having their American identity crushed, which is accelerating every day under Trump 2.0. “Socialism with Cascadian characteristics” is a just a bit (or thought experiment), but it takes advantage of what is happening right now and gets them out of the liberal dead-end quickly. There needs to be so we fucking urgency if we are going to protect our communities from fascism and we know we can’t wait 4 more fucking years and then watch Democrats tank to a Vance/DeSantis ticket. Either liberals talk me down or they don’t actually hate this shit and they’re pretenders (a lot of them irl are down to engage though, they’re on their way).

To respond to the first part of your post; It’s more of a talking point to get the liberals away from thinking that discussing Trump’s garbage of the day and the :vote: ing in 2028 is somehow effective at anything. I don’t actually want a civil insurrection, the US government would win with support of the chuds.

However, having this discussion among comrades, and even with liberals (the ones who genuinely want progressive changes) gets things moving in the right direction since it isolates the US federal government and the Democratic Party. If we are going to play at the state level, then both of those entities are going to stand in the way of achieving our goals. Does that make sense?

I will also mention that these topics are complex and honestly difficult for me to organize my thoughts here in a place that is “friendly” like Hexbear. Thanks for responding, and whether the discussion happens here or irl, agree or disagree, I hope as comrades “iron sharpens iron” and we will both come away with a more developed understanding of the age old “what is to be done?”.

For discussion purposes though, I’ll respond to your question: as socialists we understand that the ownership class will not give way to the workers peacefully. I don’t wish to go to war. I hope to avert it. At the same time we do need to discuss this head on (as you are with your question). We need to understand that an violent incursion would be a suicide mission and it would be to our benefit to tip the scales until it’s not an absolute blowout.

Another angle: building media and political infrastructure that will reach out to these people and bring them somewhere into the fold (anyone who is not actually part of the ownership class). We saw from the Bernie campaigns how actually doing politics can engage significant numbers of people from unexpected places. On the west coast we have the upper hand over racist/transphobic culture (kinda sorta, big asterisk, let’s not tangent quite yet). The movement (or party apparatus thereof) can not allow these people to be brought up to leadership positions (unless they demonstrate that they’ve shed those anti-worker, anti-equiality convictions). They can still be made useful at the fringe , and our movement can be poised with open arms (at the fringe) for people who realize that US led capitalism is doomed to fail. We know that capitalism will be unable to survive its own contradictions, so it becomes a bit of a waiting game when it comes to these folks, but we aren’t fucking Democrats so we will have rural outreach programs etc…

There will be true and through fashys out there, but I think it’s very fring, any they’ll find their way over to “greater Idaho” and stfu or something, most likely.

Yeah let’s stop sitting on our asses and work on that.

Cascadia supports the liberation of our Puerto Rican, Alaskan, and Hawaiian comrades from the genocidal United States empire.

On the West Coast we will need to do what it takes to figure for our rights taken and withheld from us by the genocidal and regressive United States empire.

Comrades elsewhere in the lower United States, I’m not sure what options you have but we welcome you to come west and right with us for a better future. Our geographic isolation offers us this advantage.

Its difficult because there are many people who are transplants in our major cities cause they don’t want to live in chudsville or wherever. They still have family in those places. The short answer is that as much as I would love to solve Ohio and Alabama’s problems, I would also like to solve the problems of my Kenyan and Indian and Honduran comrades. I have no effective political or economic power on these places. I do have a smidge of influence in my local community so that’s what I’m able to look out for.

I could go on but I’ll pause here.

It’s like 65% a bit so don’t bother ;)

For us on the west coast we can appropriate “calexit” or “Cascadia” as progressive propaganda, but I can’t speak for socialists elsewhere in the United States. Different material (geographic) conditions may make the “balkanize the US” tactic unpalatable.

If you happen to live in the so-called “Pacific Northwest” region of the United States, you can have them DM this account for answers.

That would be sick

If you leave the United States and just walk away, none of that shit is your problem… Cause you’re no longer part of the United States… (Theoretically) Who cares about their problems?? The whole point is that they’re fucking it up so it’s time to leave.

I guess on the west coast it’s easy cause DC is “over there”, if you’re in Vermont or something it’s more right at your doorstep.

This is all just chatter anyway, in practical terms the US wouldn’t just let that happen. in other practical terms though, we need to recognize that the US federal government is where progress goes to die, as they’ve demonstrated over and over again. If you want a better future for your community, and the next generation (on a global scale, really) I’m sure your “blue state, USA” will have better intentions than the stagnant gerentocracy located in Washington DC.

The people of Cascadia support the liberation of our Californian comrades from the regressive United States empire.

Cascadians support the liberation of our Californian comrades from the genocidal and regressive United States empire.

Don’t be a pessimistic dick, this is literally the correct tactic and would have a positive effect on the world, whether or not it’s actually successful in what it’s trying to achieve.

Answer is that you don’t need to successfully secede in order to create domestic strife that will be disruptive to the U.S. economy and foreign policy.

Also, no need to assume we’re gonna want to roll with CA.

I really hope Tor’s channel continues to grow! Some great stuff lately

I think you have it right, but also in Portland and Seattle (and other liberal strongholds) I think there is an opportunity right now where the Democrats are clearly just going to keep losing to trump/trump 2.0. Even if they deliver a reprieve every once in a while, anyone who is serious is having their “what is to be done?” moment (why wasn’t it in 2016 or any other time? Let’s not digress). I’m planning to tighten up a lot of my relationships in the next few weeks before MSM can figure out a way to get people placated again, although that might be really hard for them with Republicans stepping up.

It’s addressed in the last section of the linked post.

The Cascadia = white nationalism thing was mostly a figment the 70, very few people even know about it, and the imagery is used far far more by liberals in the present era. It is an important thing to be aware of, but it can be addressed down the line. For now, there is no movement, so you need to work with what you got. Rebranding is totally something that should be discussed down the line when there is a party (or other entity) to discuss it.

The thing is that in our region, it’s not very much work at all to radicalize people further to the left of what they are. We are in a place (in the major metro regions) where there is a really solid amount of people that need to give up on the US because it as anti-progressive in pretty much every way (as people here already know). Socialists and progressive liberals need to stop viewing themselves as “American” and start seeing the US government as an outside force that is holding us back, because that’s what it is.

Even with all that said, regardless of the “Cascadia” brand, the region has a long history of being infested with white nationalism. Cascadian socialists must be well educated on this, and it needs to be a pillar of the movement.

Comrades in the Pacific Northwest might be interested in my post from last week, opening discussion about a socialist movement originating in and focusing on Cascadia: https://hexbear.net/comment/5576727

There are flaws, but rhetorically it should be liberal-friendly. We live in the most politically progressive region of the US, but we are constrained by U.S. federal politics. Perhaps we should develop a Cascadian identity of our own that better represents us. Getting your politics from CNN or MSNBC will never ever take you there (as has been thoroughly proven for three elections, how much harder can our states support Democrats?bits not enough).

I can’t see any way out except third world maoism, and that’s a longshot

Socialist politics must necessarily adapt to the material conditions of where they are practiced. MTW was effective in pre-Revolutionary China, but we don’t just copy/paste what happened previously, even if it was effective.

Don’t take that as a direct denouncement of MTW, of course. It is important to study the successes and failures of our comrades of the past and learn from them. Understanding that most of the socialist successes have happened in largely agrarian countries certainly allows for some bleakness to residents of the imperial core. The wheels of history turn on, and the fight for a better future has barely even begun.

I think some of that was because my leftism was mostly online. I did what i could in person but had limited options.

It’s super important to take this all offline. Get is as offline as possible, even.

This can be very difficult for many who are truly stuck in some really bleak political territory. I’ve lived on the US west coast my whole life, so it 's unfortunately (for my message) not some thing I’m familiar with. I hope that anyone in your situation finds the means and motivation to move to somewhere they can at least have some tenuous organization, even if it’s with tha succ-dems (way better than nothing). I know many have moved to the US west coast from other parts of the country for the politics (I wish we could offer them better than bland liberalism, but I digress…). It’s not to be taken lightly, but especially if you are young, it should be a serious consideration. Every US west coast city has an active DSA, at minimum.

But to be honest what can I do other than mutual aid? Americans are too stupid to ever see past capitalism, there’s no local governance I can affect, and anything else is just adventurism.

Where are you at with education? That answer has a lot to do with what options you’ll have available (whatever it may be).

Since you asked, I’ll deliver more propaganda right here in your inbox! There’s plenty more to write up, but why don’t you throw in a question of your own to prompt me? If you don’t like my first draft of my response, we can workshop it a bit.