I’ve never heard someone say the N word in person until today I think. One minority (aboriginal) telling me how something about blacks but using the N word instead of blacks/African-american.
There are a lot of other smaller instances I’ve seen in my personal life too.
I’ve never seen Indian versus Pakistan racism, but I would at least get why that might happen, since history.
In public policy, the majority (caucasians) are prob the most racist here, but in casual conversation I might hear more minority vs minority racism. I think this partially might be because caucasians have it drilled into them (my city) that they have to not be racist in convo?
I’ve never understood why some minority groups didn’t come out to support black lives matter (here), but it seems to look like bc they don’t care to help out blm bc its not explicitly minority-name-here lives matter
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No. In fact, this whole rant is disturbingly racist in itself.
This foundational assumption isn’t even true. History doesn’t start at European colonization or the British Empire, and even during colonization they were still in competition with other empires for most of it (Russian empire, Spanish empire). Historically the Roman empire was by far dominant over them. But maybe that’s nitpicking…
Why do you assume other races/ethnicities/etc.'s beliefs in superiority are invalid? (invalid meaning ‘not counting as superiority’, not meaning ‘unjustified’) European’s aren’t some untouchable group. What the hell would make them so? Because they successfully colonized some other continents? That’s not unique at all.
Consider this horrible paragraph (I really hope I don’t have to point out that this is merely impersonation):
Are you honestly going to tell us that isn’t racist at all? Are you going to tell us that someone who already didn’t like europeans can’t look at that and nod? Are you going to tell us that this isn’t rightfully offensive on a racial level to a random ‘white’ (whatever that term means this day of the week) person?
How is it “disturbingly racist”? Because I’ve said you can’t be racist to white people?
We aren’t talking about ancient history or pre colonial times though. We talking about a racial hegemony that exists and was purportrared by white colonialism and the affects its created and had on society now.
It’s not about past hierarchies, it’s about the dominant narrative of racism that white colonialism has instilled in people.
Nobodies arguing that you can’t be racially bigoted/discriminatory to white people but that wasn’t my point and you’ve conflated that with racism.
Racism being the taught behaviour of arbitrary race discrimination and the subsequent behaviours, assumptions and slurs that comes along with it that play into this pointless hierarchy white colonialism infected everyone with.
If the person in original post is using racist slurs that was described above then yeah jts racism and its taught racism OR they might just not know the gravity of the word they’ve used sure. Then that’s a conversation OP can have but if they do understand and are using that word with the weight it carries then that’s playing into racism.
People can be discriminatory for a load of reasons and I’m not saying that’s good or fine but I’m highlighting that when other minorities repeat slurs and rhetoric used by white colonialists that’s playing straight into the hierarchy created by white colonialists and the false perceptions it purportrated.
Also what’s with the wildly bigoted strawman? Of course it’s unacceptable. It’s racially discriminatory, wildly bigoted and false but it’s not racism in the way I understand it because that’s not what racism is defined as. You’ve described racial discrimination sure but it’s not coming from a literal place of percieved societal superiority. If a Jewish person or a Chinese person said this then it would be vile sure but they aren’t in control of the dominant perception on race that white people invented. It’s not like if they say that it’s something that everyone agrees to like it’s fact and runs with it. Where as once a white Anglo drops any sinophobia or antisemitism that is immediately internalised and reacted to by people because of the internalised racial hierarchy people are subjected to in society.
Just Google whiteness. Maybe then you can see what I’m trying to say.
Whiteness is a concept and while I’m happy to admit my take on the whole situation might be a bit narrow just talking about whiteness when other factors obviously play a role to as highlighted by Commiewolf, you coming in here crying “this is disturbingly racist” because I tried to describe the concept of whiteness tells me you’ve immediately decided I’m attacking whites and have went into reaction mode to that end instead of actually reading what I put. I’ve not pulled this out my ass if that’s what your thinking.
I don’t know how else to interpret “you can’t be racist to white people”. Being racially discriminatory is a textbook definition of racism. Is there some different definition you are using in this context?
There are clear indications of the wildly bigoted strawman that indicate a belief in genetic superiority, cultural superiority and moral superiority, and a perception of China’s socio-economic superiority. Why should perceived societal superiority be necessary for this to be racism? What makes the racism example in OP different? Can Japanese be racist to Chinese due to perceived whiteness but not the other way around??
Not that alone, moreso the implication that anglo-saxons are untouchable or superior just because they’re the ‘default race’ in places such as the USA, and the trivialization of the power other races/etc. have, implying they can’t look down at white people as an inferior society or race. They absolutely have the power to see themselves as superior. Millions do. In fact, I think this stems from the implicit USA-centric view of Whiteness theory which limits its applicability. Are anglo-saxons socially superior in China?
I agree with this in the case of the specific slur used in OP’s post; that is a slur with implicit hierarchical implications of ‘white over black’ (or even potentially a general ‘white over non-white’ in many circles). I’m not sure if I agree with it in a generalized sense. A case study would be slurs that developed independently of any white group, that was never used by whites. Furthermore, you could find slurs that aren’t majority against minority, to argue against the hypothesis of a socially superior group being necessary.
I guess my argument can be summed up as Whiteness not being a necessary part of racism. They are of course highly interrelated, white and non-white being a racial concept, but I don’t think the racism in OP is them insulting a person in relation to their whiteness. That would be self-defeating, unless the aboriginal person implicitly considers themself white! Instead, I believe they are merely recycling an insult that independently happened to be about whiteness.
I agree with your comments about the ruling class benefiting from sowing racial divisions to discourage class solidarity.
Because racial discrimination and “racism” ARE different things.
White academia has absolutely clouded the narrative around what racism as a concept means and that’s why your misunderstanding my comment. E.g. when universities and white talking heads cry racism when no they’ve never suffered racism and can’t. They can suffer racial discrimination.
You see racism as racial discrimination. But racism is racial discrimination down a hierarchy. It needs that position of superiority to propagate and it includes the conditions that create or empower racial discrimination.
https://rubinthomlinson.com/understanding-racism-and-racial-discrimination-recognizing-responding-to-the-problem-in-canada/
“To put it simply, racism refers to a deep-rooted belief system that one group is superior to another. Though morally reprehensible, it is not illegal, unless it manifests as discrimination. Racial discrimination is the act of isolating persons based on their race and subjecting them to differential or unequal treatment because of their race. Racial discrimination is therefore a by-product of racism and is illegal under the laws of Canada.”
They 👏 are 👏 not 👏 the 👏 same 👏 thing
They are inextricably linked agreed but they are different concepts and what’s important is understanding that, how that relates to any racism or racial discrimination that takes place and what place that is coming from.
If the world was different then yeah I guess racism could exist against white people if it became deep seated and systemic but it hasn’t and that’s my point. The current system absolutely removes Anglo saxons from racism because we propagate it at least in Australia where OPs post I assume is taking place.
Yes minority groups in the UK can look down on whites but it’s kinds impossible to discriminate against them without the white majority coming down on them like a hammer. I never said non whites couldn’t look down on whites but you’ve conflated racism and racial chauvinism there.
Also if we were in China then whites wouldn’t be the majority would they? That’s an entirely different situation to a white Anglo-Saxon country like the UK where I’m coming from with my argument and Australia where OPs post is situated.
I can’t honestly speak for what the person in OPs post said, if it’s just a word they’ve picked up then maybe there isn’t racist intent behind it but it still propagates the racism in Australia. If the person did know what the word meant then that’s quite sad they chose to use it given the connotations. It’s not really my place to theory craft their intention.
What I can attest to is the racism and perceived levels of whiteness I see in the UK and how racist perceptions can come from people who themselves are also victims of racism. Going back to the original example, polish chefs in an old work were insanely racist to black people, but they themselves suffer racism from Anglo saxon brits.
The explanation I’ve gotten from friends is that within Anglo saxon countries if we are being specific (because frankly I don’t want to assume or talk about non Anglo-Saxon countries race dynamics) the racism and perceived whiteness of varying immigrants plays a huge part in how those groups can be racist against each other. Im sure there’s plenty of other contextual parts but perceived levels of whiteness are a thing.
So in the UK you can’t be racist to any white person. You can racially discriminate against them but the narrative and societal perceptions around race in the UK and other Anglo-Saxon countries is that white sit at the top of this hierarchy and therefore are untouchable by systemic and overt racism. That doesn’t mean they are free of being racially discriminated against but thats different. One is the action caused by the actual concept and attitudes that come with it.
This is massively unhelpful. Textbook definitions are not supposed to be be all end all explanations for how the world works. And when it comes to racism, what it means to a white person and what it means to a person of color is massively different, but you will not find that in Miriam Webster or whatever. The point of Marxist analysis is to recognize what are the conditions surrounding racism today and how we got here. Sure you could argue that if you ignore all context and focus solely on the literal meaning of the word “Racism” then it is technically possible to be racist towards white people. But that is not how racism has worked for the past 300-400 years, and claiming that recognizing the inherent privilege of white people in the modern day is racist in itself is self defeating. We cannot have any meaningful change without acknowledging that the modern racism has been perpetrated by white people. That’s not to say that its impossible to be racist towards white people, it is possible, but there is no INSTITUTIONAL racism that disadvantages white people, and internalizes vast populations with negative stereotypes that end up causing discrimination. To claim so is to be ignorant to the material reality of the Anglo dominated world we live in.
That’s an excellent clarification, and I agree.