• kibiz0r
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    9 months ago

    I’m not sure how to feel about the level of support shown for Bushnell, when previous self-immolators have been thoroughly ignored.

    Part of me is glad that his death is not in vain, and his friends and family can take some solace in that fact.

    But part of me is terrified that 20 more people are going to try similar stunts and achieve… less-than-nothing.

    There are already too many martyrs. We need agitators. You can’t agitate if you’re dead or otherwise removed.

    Please: If you’re considering Aaron Bushnell an inspiration, be inspired by the fact that he did something unusual, not that he did something self-destructive. Go throw some soup on a Van Gogh instead.

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      You are correct… Bushnell isn’t even the first USian to self-immolate as a form of protest this decade - the others barely made the news.

      While I can’t bring myself to criticise people like Bushnell (for obvious reasons), I also cannot endorse it. I don’t want to die for a cause - I want to make the fascists die for theirs.

      • Venia Silente@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        I don’t want to die for a cause - I want to make the fascists die for theirs.

        Honestly this is one of the best quotables I’ve found on the internet this year. Permission to steal?

        • ClanOfTheOcho@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          It’s a paraphrase from a Patton quote. I don’t have the exact quote readily available, but the gist is, “The objective of war isn’t to die for one’s country, but to make some other poor bastard die for his.”

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      I worry about this too. I don’t like self immolation as a form of protest. Normally I’d say it accomplishes nothing, but in this case it did draw a lot of attention – that by no means though should be an endorsement for others to do this. We can find better, equally effective ways to organize. There’s already enough senseless death going on.

      I appreciate his gesture, but I wish he hadn’t done it. I wish he was alive.

    • nyctre@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Except for that last part. Don’t waste food. And don’t destroy unique stuff.(Yes, the van Gogh was protected by glass iirc, but most other paintings aren’t) Plenty of ways to get attention without doing irreversible damage to art.

      • Trebach@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        (Yes, the van Gogh was protected by glass iirc, but most other paintings aren’t)

        The van Gogh was chosen specifically because it was protected by glass.

    • thecrotch@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      previous self-immolators have been thoroughly ignored

      Arguably a self imolator ended the war in Vietnam. He absolutely got the ball rolling.

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Arguably a self imolator ended the war in Vietnam.

        No, he fucking didn’t. The Vietnamese breaking the US military through the use of force ended the war in Vietnam.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            I hate to be the one to break it to you… but the Vietnamese broke the US military. Swallow all the cope the propagandists have been spoon-feeding you about this since the 70s - it doesn’t change anything.

            • Anti_Iridium@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              What do you mean by “broke”? I’m quite literally in a class on the Vietnam War this semester, writing a paper about how ineffective our policy of bombing an agrarian society that only needed to supply its forces 50 tons of supplies a day.

              Please, elaborate.

              • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                ineffective our policy of bombing an agrarian society

                “Ineffective” at what? The indiscriminate carnage that the US visited on SE Asia from the air was possibly the most effective mass-slaughter campaign ever perpetrated by a colonialist power - it was even more effective than the colonialist slaughter Germany visited on eastern Europe and the Soviet Union during WW2.

                So no… as far as the tenets of colonialist warfare is concerned, it was perfectly effective.

                • Anti_Iridium@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  At stopping supplies and people from moving south?

                  So, our goal was genocide? I’m not saying we were the good guys, but clearly we weren’t comparable to the fucking Nazis eastern campaign.

                  You still didn’t answer what it meant to break the US military.

                  • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                    9 months ago

                    but clearly we weren’t comparable to the fucking Nazis

                    Actually, the US actions in SE Asia is very comparable to what Germany and it’s allies did in eastern Europe and Russia… not even the Nazis attempted to use chemical warfare to starve their victim population into submission - the US did.

                    What the Nazis did was nothing unique - it has been standard fare for colonialist powers long before WW2 happened, and it was stadard fare for the US both before and during the (so-called) “Cold War.” The only reason the Nazis became infamous for it was because they literally perpetrated it on the (so-called) “civilized” world’s doorstep on people that looked “white.”

                    You still didn’t answer what it meant to break the US military.

                    That’s because I won’t - there is no need. Col. Robert D. Heinl answered this all the way back in 1971.

                    TLDR - “Our Army that now remains in Vietnam is in a state approaching collapse, with individual units avoiding or having refused combat, murdering their officers, drug-ridden, and dispirited where not near-mutinous.”

      • 800XL@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        You’re literally calling for domestic terrorism on American soil. You aren’t a victim here, bro. No one is trying to take your tendies. Go outside, touch some grass, have a drink, and get yourself a hooker. Some post-nut clarity will do you good.

        • Landsharkgun
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          9 months ago

          He’s calling for direct action against American imperialism. If that scares you, I suggest taking a good hard look at the world and what America has done to it. Believe me, nothing that could happen to America would be worse than it’s done to others.

        • masquenox@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          You’re literally calling for domestic terrorism on American soil.

          And that’s a bad thing because…?

                • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  terrorism is a bad thing

                  Oh it is, is it? Seems to me that these days the term “terrorism” is only applied to the actions of people who doesn’t act in lock-step with white supremacists and their liberal protectors… pretty soon, the term “terrorist” might be a badge of honor for everybody that doesn’t have a swastika tattoo hidden underneath their shirt.

                  So go ahead… tell me all about “terrorism.”

      • AdmiralShat@programming.dev
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        9 months ago

        Ah yes, it’s liberals who are the problem. It’s liberals who want you to bent to authority, for sure. It’s liberals who are supporting the IDF

        • Landsharkgun
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          9 months ago

          You’re attempting sarcasm, but it kinda falls flat when the liberals did indeed line up to give more funding to Israel right alongside the conservatives.

        • masquenox@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Ah yes, it’s liberals who are the problem.

          Lol! Close your mouth… you don’t want all that sarcasm back-blast getting in there.