okay so I read the whole thing. it describes a really shitty, extant system. it defines the spoiler effect. it shows how the spoiler effect makes the already shitty system even more shitty. all that’s fine and well. never once does it say that voting for minor party candidates is literally a vote for republicans, which was the actual statement that I took issue with.
you’re welcome to make the argument that the result is the same and that’s why you specifically will only vote strategically. that’s fine. it does absolutely nothing to compel me to vote for either democrats or for republicans. or even to vote at all for that matter. why participate in such a fundamentally broken system at all then? just to give one more point to 99% hitler? no thank you.
it’s not a strategic vote! it’s an abdication of strategy that pretends only the current election matters! it assumes the present is eternal and that no electoral strategy could ever consider the future. an electoral strategy would admit the left has no real power absent a dedicated bloc and would work on creating one. to do so, you must be willing to sacrifice a few elections, because you must withhold votes and force the democrats to the bargaining table. otherwise you will forever be trapped in a cycle of voting for the “lesser” evil. FPTP does not preclude a long-term electoral strategy.
why participate in such a fundamentally broken system at all then?
Because I have no choice. “The System” happens to me whether I like it or not; the laws happen to me whether I like it or not, and if I can have 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler, I’ll take the lesser. My refusal to participate doesn’t change the fact that those are my two options, and one will be chosen.
I would rather have a voice than let someone else choose for me.
So you’re just incredibly naive or incredibly selfish to not care about the results of what you do as long as you can pretend to be principled about it.
I’m not sure I’ve ever heard anything as incorrect in electoral strategy as voting for “99% Hitler”. elections come every 4 years. a loss today need not remain a loss forever. make the dems come to you! force them to bargain with the left instead of the right!
Jfc nobody said to vote for trump.
Realistically what do you hope to accomplish by voting for someone else or not voting?
Goddammit I never said not to vote. What do you hope to accomplish by only voting?
Okay then answer the other part of my question. That’s why I included it.
What other part?
I’m not expecting to accomplish much of anything by voting for someone else. I prefer direct action.
It’s the logical conclusion of your statements
It’s sarcasm. And voting for a minor party candidate is a vote for Republicans.
everyone knows that when you vote third party those votes are just tallied up and given to whatever republican is running
voting for a minor party candidate is, quite literally, not a vote for republicans.
That’s not how FPTP works. You need to go read up on FPTP and the Spoiler Effect.
https://www.commoncause.org/colorado/democracy-wire/first-past-the-post-voting-our-elections-explained/
okay so I read the whole thing. it describes a really shitty, extant system. it defines the spoiler effect. it shows how the spoiler effect makes the already shitty system even more shitty. all that’s fine and well. never once does it say that voting for minor party candidates is literally a vote for republicans, which was the actual statement that I took issue with.
you’re welcome to make the argument that the result is the same and that’s why you specifically will only vote strategically. that’s fine. it does absolutely nothing to compel me to vote for either democrats or for republicans. or even to vote at all for that matter. why participate in such a fundamentally broken system at all then? just to give one more point to 99% hitler? no thank you.
it’s not a strategic vote! it’s an abdication of strategy that pretends only the current election matters! it assumes the present is eternal and that no electoral strategy could ever consider the future. an electoral strategy would admit the left has no real power absent a dedicated bloc and would work on creating one. to do so, you must be willing to sacrifice a few elections, because you must withhold votes and force the democrats to the bargaining table. otherwise you will forever be trapped in a cycle of voting for the “lesser” evil. FPTP does not preclude a long-term electoral strategy.
Because I have no choice. “The System” happens to me whether I like it or not; the laws happen to me whether I like it or not, and if I can have 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler, I’ll take the lesser. My refusal to participate doesn’t change the fact that those are my two options, and one will be chosen.
I would rather have a voice than let someone else choose for me.
have at it. i refuse to dignify the actions of any genocidal maniac with an endorsement in the form of my vote. simple as.
So you’re just incredibly naive or incredibly selfish to not care about the results of what you do as long as you can pretend to be principled about it.
I’ve been reading this exact argument for decades. It used to stop at Hitler and genocide because someone would shout “Godwin’s Law!”
And now here we are. Will it go up to 99.9% Hitler, or was 2016 our last chance to elect a leftist? Keep your passports or gun lockers ready.
Kudos to you for disagreeing without descending into name calling. A rare quality.
Shut up dorkass
Ur voting for 99% Hitler???
Libs are really telling on themselves even nore than usual these days. Hard not when you’re supporting genocide i guess
THEY SAID THE LINE
What makes you hexbearians think this is a good response to anything? Literally just “I depicted you as the soyjak”
And what did I say that was incorrect?
I’m not sure I’ve ever heard anything as incorrect in electoral strategy as voting for “99% Hitler”. elections come every 4 years. a loss today need not remain a loss forever. make the dems come to you! force them to bargain with the left instead of the right!
Um actually, voting for a third party is a vote for Democrats sweety.
Explain to me the math on that one, because I’m not seeing how a +1 for a party that’s not the GOP is somehow a +1 for the GOP.