Well, yeah, but it’s not supposed to happen to them. They’re the ones who are supposed to be in charge, not just morally and ethically, but also economically. If they can get called out for their bullshit it’s a warning sign to them. Their massive privileges are being eroded and it scares the shit out of them.
How much have you read about the history of religion?
If they’re not doing it to others, they’re doing it to themselves. The last time there wasn’t a Christian church leader ranting about an evil person was around year 0.
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When was the last time there wasn’t an atheist ranting about how evil Christians are?
Seems to me fundy Christians and atheists are two sides of the same obnoxious coin.
The problem is there is no edge on that coin.
You can’t really debate on whether to trust science or have faith. They are antipodal way of thinking.
One thing you could do is reduce the two to their consequences for society and pick which one is wrong using your moral instinct or personal philosophy.
(You can even do like some people and choose when to apply each one…)
But you sure won’t make people shut up about their own morals and vision for society. It’s too involving, we’re bound to be obnoxious.
You can’t really debate on whether to trust science or have faith.
They really aren’t. Science is about understanding how things work, and religion is about pondering our place in the universe, and morals. It’s really only fundamentalists that take scriptures literally and the fundamentalist atheists that believe all religious people are fundamentalists.
The only thing worse than being cornered by someone saying “have you been saved by Jesus Christ our lord and saviour” is being stuck talking to an atheist that’ll go on for much longer about their belief that religion caused all the world’s problems. At least a religious person is capable of saying something positive now and then.
They do overlap in their goals.
God is the creator of the universe science describe. God itself, if he existed, would be a topic of science.
Science is answering our pondering about our place in the universe. We can also be scientists and create a moral belief system that’s not based on God.
Separating them is part of the compartmentalization we do to avoid conflict or our self contradictions.
Fundamentalists in both religion and atheism think the other view is wrong and should not exist. That’s very different from just recognizing we have different point of views.
And atheists aren’t all such morons to think religion is such a problem. Most atheist can respect religious people as long as they’re not fundamentalist.
Science is answering our pondering about our place in the universe. We can also be scientists and create a moral belief system that’s not based on God.
That wouldn’t be science. It would be a religion.
For most of history science was done by the religious because few other people were literate. We long ago decided it would be better to have people specialized in science, and separated science from religion. And it worked really well.
Now you want to turn science into a religion? We already know that wouldn’t work very well. Why would you want this? It seems to me you’re not really against the concept of religion you just don’t like the religions we currently have.
Science isn’t about beliefs. It depends on people being skeptical of everything. Searching for empirical evidence that’s contrary to current theories so those theories can be improved and sometimes even replaced. Science is a process. Mixing morals and beliefs into science makes for bad morals and bad science.
Science is a method to find truth by telling us how to construct proofs.
What we call rationality in general, in which science is based on, is to use proof to believe in something.
Whereas faith and so religion is believing without proof.
So as a scientist you do believe in any theory that has been proven. And of course you change your beliefs with each new information.
Believing isn’t just a word we use for religion, it also means to accept something is true.
I don’t think most scientists were religious, but for the one that were, people are never coherent, they can use science for some beliefs and religion for others even if that’s contradictory.
As for moral, i didn’t explicitly say it’s science, because it isn’t, it’s philosophy. But scientists that don’t want to believe in God and his morals have created other philosophies and morals.
Some based on the same premise of rationality as science. For which science can even be a tool.
Conversely the foundation of science always was motivated by philosophical questions about reality. And it’s application always had concerned about morals.
P.S. I don’t have faith, and i do think most current religions have bad morals and are just manipulative organizations. But most religious people are not part of them, most of them are good people. Their faith isn’t a problem for me or anyone, and can even be good driving force.
What do you even mean? By that standard everyone is obnoxious.
Or perhaps you think the lightweight religious folk are magically less obnoxious? I dunno.
Anyone up for some D&D?
For anyone who isn’t aware of the Satanic Panic, this was a pretty fun time to be a D&D player:
https://gizmodo.com/a-brief-history-of-satanic-panic-in-the-1980s-1679476373
https://gizmodo.com/how-we-won-the-war-on-dungeons-dragons-1550936588
I believe the culture war junk is part of distract and divide tactics. ‘hey parents don’t worry about all the bloodshed from neoliberal policies, your kids are summoning demons!’
That’s why I wear my “Let’s summon demons!” shirt at every opportunity. Pearl clutching intensifies!
You can’t just mention D&D and Satanic Panic without sharing the Chick Tract.
:D I absolutely should have. I think I had at least a half dozen of these specific ones in physical form at one point back in the day.
Edit: Last time this came up I learned of this. 😀 https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNYxu1LqkyT3Ihj7l2n2WSH0KlqOJaEio
I love that there’s a reference to the Tom Hanks classic Mazes and Monsters in there.
Funny thing about the eighties. I was absolutely forbidden from playing dungeons and dragons but was totally allowed to play wizardry, Ultima, and bards tale.
Explain that parental logic.
I do feel I missed out. Never did get to play the real deal.
I think tabletop gaming and D&D are having a renaissance in recent years - I bet you could find folks to play with easier than you think.
I haven’t played in decades myself, but my son does, and so does a good friend of mine (who is even older than me) and his kids, and seemingly half the people I know.
I would theoretically love to play, but I have other life circumstances that have required me to cut gaming time of any kind to 0 for awhile.
You should give it a shot if you can!
I love that there’s a reference to the Tom Hanks classic Mazes and Monsters in there.
That’s been on my rewatch list for awhile. I don’t think I’ve seen it since it was new. One of these days… :)
Man, my friend got all his D&D stuff taken away in 1984, he bought new stuff and left it at my house, which was fine by me as he said I could use it even if he wasn’t around.
Only if we can listen to a Judas Priest record backwards.
The campaigns to ban video games by Christian groups is one of the biggest examples of cancel culture in modern times.
That’s a long time ago. Didn’t that happen in the 90s?
The 90’s weren’t that long ago to some of us. But yes, in the 80’s and 90’s they rallied hard against music, and in the 90’s and early 2000’s against video games. Something positive did come out of it though. Music albums and video games didn’t have maturity ratings before all of that campaigning from the Christian Coalition. As a parent it’s nice to have a rating flag, so you know to check the content and see if you think it’s appropriate for your children.
My brother in Christ, I don’t know what planet you live on, but here on Earth, that was 30 years ago no matter where you live. And to my knowledge, none of the games and/or bands actually got cancelled because of it except on an individual basis (i.e. if you parents forbid you to have them at home). But in that case, we simply went to a friend’s house to play or listen to them there, so I’m not sure that this is really something worth getting all worked up over.
1990 was 34 years ago, but 1999 was only 25 years ago. When you get older, 25 years doesn’t seem like that long ago. I’m not sure if you’re implying that I’m getting worked up in your last sentence, but I’m not. I simply stated an observation. As far as the Christian Coalition, yes, they got really worked up.
Tons of albums were banned. 2 Live Crew had almost every one of their albums banned at one point or another. License to Ill by the Beasty Boys was banned. Everything from Too Short was banned. Tons of music was banned either from the radio, the record stores, or both. People went to jail over it. It was a big deal. Thankfully a lot of those bands sued and appealed, and moved the meter for artistic expression considerably, from then forwards.
You know you’re old when young people confidently explain to you things you witnessed first hand. Like Dee Snyder testifying in a Senate hearing.
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Literally every accusation from a right winger is a confession
See also: man gets shot, how could he do this.meme
Wait until they go broke buying trump bibles only to bemoan the lack of social welfare and health programs they continually try to kill.
If there’s anything Suzerain taught me over the last few days it’s that sometimes you have to pull an Urdnot Wrex and drag the ignorant forward before their own short sighted self interest gets everyone killed.
Yes I really enjoyed making two video game references lol
No, it’s “shunning” when they do it. It’s “cancel culture” when other people do it.
Proper manipulation of language is key to fighting a culture war.
Never mind Christians- long before this “cancel culture” bullshit started, Republicans were perfectly happy to censor the Dixie Chicks and basically destroy their careers because they dared to criticize George W. Bush.
I’ve never heard any of them say that was wrong of them, just that cancel culture is the worst thing ever.
Decades? Millennia!
Why yes, cancelling, shunning, etc is bad.
Actually, everybody complains about cancel culture. And Christians.
Burned heretics
A perfect meme!
Real
*American Christians.
All Christians
A lot more than just American xtians. There are countries where people cannot get safe, legal abortions because of the stranglehold that xtians have on the political class. Likewise access to contraceptives and even basic reproductive education within the school system. The Roman Catholic Church has been far more destructive than American xtians.
You see, it’s true: Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
“Christians”
Never fails, Christians (ostensibly “”““real””“” ones lol) always go to this, such a convenient out for rancid, unserious, responsibility denying dingdongs
If I call myself a Scotsman, despite not meeting the definition of a Scotsman (never been to Scotland, have no Scottish heritage) then it would be fair to call me not a “True Scotsman.”
If the definition of “Christian” is “someone who follows the teachings of Jesus” then someone who spreads hate does not meet that definition.
If the definition of “Christian” is “anyone who calls themselves a Christian” then the definition is so broad it is useless as a descriptor. It includes someone who is loving and caring, and someone who abuses and murders anyone they disagree with. It tells you nothing about the individual or how they behave.
If the definition of “Christian” is “someone who follows the teachings of Jesus”
If that’s your definition then there are no Christians.
Dolly Parton
I don’t think Dolly Parton hates her family.
If that’s your definition then there are no Christians.
Ok, so you’re going with the word is useless as a descriptor.
No, I’m saying that christians are people who claim to be christian.
No, I’m saying that christians are people who claim to be christian.
As I said, useless as a descriptor. By that definition the word “Christian” includes someone who donates time to charities, as well as someone who spreads hate about immigrants, wants them sent back to their own countries, and wants to bomb those countries.
The word “Christian” could be applied to a person that wants to take away a woman’s right to medical care, and to a person that is pro-choice.
Hell, the word “Christian” could apply to someone who has never set foot inside a church, has never seen a Bible, and has no idea what’s even in it, as long as they “claim they are a Christian.”
By that definition if I tell you someone is a Christian it doesn’t tell you if that person loves Trans people or hates them. As I said, a useless descriptor.
Incredibly convenient thing for “polite Christians” (read: enablers) to say while the overwhelmingly powerful structure borne of their freely given money, time, and prejudices ruins the country.
Replace the word “Christian” with “American” and your statement is just as valid.
Why is this getting upvoted? OP is using irony. The No True Scotsman fallacy requires refuting a counterexample as well as “The modification is signalled by the use of non-substantive rhetoric such as “true”, “pure”, “genuine”, “authentic”, “real”, etc.” Check out the “Occurrence” section.
Why is this getting upvoted?
Because there are people who really don’t like how right wing conservative Christians behave, but also for some reason hate when other Christians agree that the behaviour is unacceptable and call them out on it.
You’re not calling out shit. You’re refusing any responsibility by claiming they’re not even really Christian. They are, and until you admit that, nobody gives a fuck about your claims to the contrary. Christians can be shit, that doesn’t make them not Christian you absolute dingus. If you’d actually read the Bible you’d know that slavery and homophobia and sexism are as fundamentally Christian as any love thy neighbor shit
Republicans: Act in hateful ways
Guy: “That behavior is contrary to the book you claim to follow”
Everyone: cheers
Christian: “I agree!”
You: “nO tRuE sCoTsMaN!!!1!”
???
You suck at telling stories like this lmao, you’re the one no true scotsmaning shitty Christians to try and avoid any flak for being associated with them. Legit this comment is utterly incomprehensible, tf is your point? Who’s guy? Who’s everyone? I assure you far from everyone thinks that republicans aren’t real Christians
Let me simplify it for you:
The argument that everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian, and also every Christian belongs to the same group and is responsible for the actions of everyone who claims to be a Christian, is patently absurd.
You can have two people with wildly different beliefs, but if they both use the label Christian somehow they are both responsible for the actions of each other.
- Attend Churches where pastors and preachers proselytize about anything “Sinful”
- Call themselves Christian proudly
- Wears crosses
- Says its forbidden by God to do something that the Bible says is bad
- Uses the words of Saint Paul to expand on those words
Damn that sounds like they are Christian, but you know, I guess they’re “not true Christians” because they happen to do everything on Saturday instead of Sunday, or don’t wash the feet of the poor, or something else that caused a schism 200 years ago.
Jesus: Love thy neighbour
These people: act in ways that is the opposite of loving their neighbour
Sure as fuck sounds like they aren’t following the teaching of Jesus. Going to a church doesn’t make someone a Christian any more than going to my garage makes me a mechanic.
Weird. None of that actually mentions Jeeeeeeesus or the things he supposedly said and did.
Weird how all the hate comes from things the apparent Son of God didn’t do, but they chose to believe in those things instead.
It’s like they’re hypocrites. False shepards.
Fake Christians.
This staunch denial of any responsibility for other shitty Christians is why nobody likes or respects you. Do something about other hateful Christians, don’t just fucking deny that they exist. Pathetic
Lol, because I’m a Christian. Good spot, Sherlock.
I definitely don’t consider all theists basically non-sentient.
Oh, so you’re just a troll who wants to piss everyone off. You were kinda doing an OK job, but now it’s way too obvious. I hope this shit gets tired for you some day💖
Sure bro. Because there aren’t atheists who have noticed the discrepancy between the messaging in the Gospel, the rest of the Bible, and what parts bigots love to point to and what they love to ignore, and they can’t possibly think some kinds of theists are worse than others
Ya clown.
