I hate this rhetoric. It implies that this a refular occurence. It is just a man hating comment. If this is happening to you frequently, maybe you are the problem. I am tired of being assumed an asshole just because I am a man. It is sexist. Plain and simple.
If you’re in a club with 99 amazing men, and one totally perverted creep who flips to aggression on a dime, guys like that won’t stop after harassing the first woman they meet in the club. By the end of the night, 4 out of 5 women who attended that club have had an experience of a guy hitting on them and getting aggressive when they reject him, and there’s a good chance it’s all the same guy. It doesn’t matter that proportionally there are waaaay more good men at the club, the reality is that almost every woman in that club had a scary experience that night because of a man.
Now that happens every night you go out, if it’s not you getting harassed, it’s your bestie and you need to stick together. Sure, you and your girls are meeting 2 or 3 great guys who you have lovely interactions without. But in the uber home you’re not talking about how nice that bloke and his mates you met on the dance floor was, you’re checking in to make sure your friend is okay after that one guy tried to slip his hand up her skirt while she was ordering at the bar, only to get threatened with rape when she said “please stop that”.
So, yes, it is a regular occurrence, not because the men who do this are regular in the population (though in some areas due to the local subcultures, they are) it’s a regular occurrence because the few men who do this are serial harassers, and for every woman you politely and respectfully flirt with, the assholes are out there harassing 10 or 20 women.
Now I do understand how frustrating it is when we say “Urgh, men” and not “Urgh, specific men who like this”, but when that one creep is a new creep every time you go out, and you’re creeped on every time you go out by the one guy there who is a creep, the other 99 men fade into the background because they aren’t a threat, you don’t need to be vigilant around them, so you aren’t thinking about them. He’s one guy out of 100, but his level of threat and danger dominates the women’s lasting perception of the safety of the space, and why is it unsafe? Because of a man, which man? It could be any man, you won’t know until you interact with them, so until you know, the danger isn’t a man, it’s men. I know that while there are a thousand species of snake only about 30 have a truly fatal bite, but I’m still going to say “I’m afraid of snakes”, even while I’m giving a chill pet carpet python a happy little cuddle.
And it sucks, I’m sorry you get lumped in with assholes due to the way women use language to describe their fears and concerns over some men.
What you’re experiencing is how these bad men effect all people, not just the women they harass. And it’s a great reason to join the social movements working to reduce behaviours of concern among these groups of aggressive men.
But while it’s frustrating that this social issue causes you to feel prejudged as dangerous, at least this social issue isn’t a risk to your physical safety the same way it is for women.
I hear you. However I think the overall angst is geared towards the perspective that this is most likely outcome from men. I know there are jerks. But we are not all jerks. And he seems to have been told many times it’s assumed he will be a jerk.
Not sure I buy that this comic isn’t a valid perspective. You’ve read into it that the author is claiming this is a universal experience but from the context it could equally be theirs.
Men and women alike are both awkward and bad at acknowledging rejection so I’m certain there is another comic out there with an alternative point of view on a situation like this.
Kind of an aside, but I learnt through harsh experiences as a youth that people basically categorise everyone else into a potential viable partner or not within about 5 mins of meeting them. Once that window has shut it is hard to change someone’s opinion of you. I suspect situations like this comic arise because the person asking for the date is asking without looking for cues from the other person that they see them as a potential romantic interest.
Or, perhaps both genders have assholes among them and we, as a society, have lost our ability to communicate with the opposite (or same) sex as caring, feeling human beings.
I agree, I was just flipping back the dumb logic of “it isnt widespread, and if it is, it is your fault”
We should communicate more, and the comic is a pretty good communication of why women are often (or rather, seem often) dodgy/cagey with men who are interested in them.
I hate this rhetoric. It implies that this a refular occurence. It is just a man hating comment. If this is happening to you frequently, maybe you are the problem. I am tired of being assumed an asshole just because I am a man. It is sexist. Plain and simple.
It’s important to remember it this way:
If you’re in a club with 99 amazing men, and one totally perverted creep who flips to aggression on a dime, guys like that won’t stop after harassing the first woman they meet in the club. By the end of the night, 4 out of 5 women who attended that club have had an experience of a guy hitting on them and getting aggressive when they reject him, and there’s a good chance it’s all the same guy. It doesn’t matter that proportionally there are waaaay more good men at the club, the reality is that almost every woman in that club had a scary experience that night because of a man.
Now that happens every night you go out, if it’s not you getting harassed, it’s your bestie and you need to stick together. Sure, you and your girls are meeting 2 or 3 great guys who you have lovely interactions without. But in the uber home you’re not talking about how nice that bloke and his mates you met on the dance floor was, you’re checking in to make sure your friend is okay after that one guy tried to slip his hand up her skirt while she was ordering at the bar, only to get threatened with rape when she said “please stop that”.
So, yes, it is a regular occurrence, not because the men who do this are regular in the population (though in some areas due to the local subcultures, they are) it’s a regular occurrence because the few men who do this are serial harassers, and for every woman you politely and respectfully flirt with, the assholes are out there harassing 10 or 20 women.
Now I do understand how frustrating it is when we say “Urgh, men” and not “Urgh, specific men who like this”, but when that one creep is a new creep every time you go out, and you’re creeped on every time you go out by the one guy there who is a creep, the other 99 men fade into the background because they aren’t a threat, you don’t need to be vigilant around them, so you aren’t thinking about them. He’s one guy out of 100, but his level of threat and danger dominates the women’s lasting perception of the safety of the space, and why is it unsafe? Because of a man, which man? It could be any man, you won’t know until you interact with them, so until you know, the danger isn’t a man, it’s men. I know that while there are a thousand species of snake only about 30 have a truly fatal bite, but I’m still going to say “I’m afraid of snakes”, even while I’m giving a chill pet carpet python a happy little cuddle.
And it sucks, I’m sorry you get lumped in with assholes due to the way women use language to describe their fears and concerns over some men.
What you’re experiencing is how these bad men effect all people, not just the women they harass. And it’s a great reason to join the social movements working to reduce behaviours of concern among these groups of aggressive men.
But while it’s frustrating that this social issue causes you to feel prejudged as dangerous, at least this social issue isn’t a risk to your physical safety the same way it is for women.
Schrödinger’s creep.
You put this in better words than I would have. Great post!
It is a regular occurrence. Ask your female friends about it.
You’re tired? They’re exhausted. Toxic behavior from aggressive men caused this collective fatigue.
Unless you behave like the man in the comic, this isn’t about you.
Maybe instead of pretending this super common thing doesn’t happen, you could encourage other men like I am doing right now.
I hear you. However I think the overall angst is geared towards the perspective that this is most likely outcome from men. I know there are jerks. But we are not all jerks. And he seems to have been told many times it’s assumed he will be a jerk.
Not sure I buy that this comic isn’t a valid perspective. You’ve read into it that the author is claiming this is a universal experience but from the context it could equally be theirs.
Men and women alike are both awkward and bad at acknowledging rejection so I’m certain there is another comic out there with an alternative point of view on a situation like this.
Kind of an aside, but I learnt through harsh experiences as a youth that people basically categorise everyone else into a potential viable partner or not within about 5 mins of meeting them. Once that window has shut it is hard to change someone’s opinion of you. I suspect situations like this comic arise because the person asking for the date is asking without looking for cues from the other person that they see them as a potential romantic interest.
For many women, it is a regular occurance. Perhaps if you are frequently being assumed an asshole, maybe you are the problem?
Or, perhaps both genders have assholes among them and we, as a society, have lost our ability to communicate with the opposite (or same) sex as caring, feeling human beings.
I agree, I was just flipping back the dumb logic of “it isnt widespread, and if it is, it is your fault”
We should communicate more, and the comic is a pretty good communication of why women are often (or rather, seem often) dodgy/cagey with men who are interested in them.
That’s the thing though, I am not the problem, it’s some other asshole that can’t take rejection. He is the problem. Two different people.
He’s obviously the problem. Classic victim blaming behavior. Incel in the making there.