• CrazyEddie041@kbin.social
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    8 个月前

    One thing LotR does very well: lets men show emotions that aren’t anger. Frodo smiles, shouts Gandalf’s name excitedly, cracks a joke with him, and gives him a hug. That’s how you know they’re old friends.

    • Dojan@lemmy.world
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      8 个月前

      Go back, Sam! I’m going to Mordor alone.
      Of course you are. And I’m coming with you!

      It always makes me tear up. Fantastic films.

      Conversely, the worst film I’ve seen in recent years must be the third(?) fantastic beasts film. I still have no clue what actually happened or what it was trying to tell. It was such a jumbled mess, and them changing out the actor of the main villain for the third time didn’t help much.

    • fckreddit@lemmy.ml
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      8 个月前

      Yeah, if made in last 10 years, they might have turned Aragorn into some kind of Conan the Barbarian ripoff. Not necessarily, for example, RDJ’s Iron Man has a lot of complex emotions and nice arc. But, they could. I mean, look at Galadriel in Rings of Power.

  • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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    8 个月前

    One thing I’ve noticed with newer movies is they do a lot more “tell, don’t show” than old movies.

    For example, compare the live action Disney Cinderella to the original animated version. The live action version is mostly a voiceover telling the story of Cinderella. They literally say “Her stepsisters weren’t very good at art or music” and then have a scene showing them being bad at art and music. The animated version spent the first 20 minutes or so like a Tom & Jerry cartoon.

    And this is across movies. I watched Predator recently and there wasn’t a lot of exposition about how they’re there to fight communists or whatever. You pick that up in snippets of dialog in between the action.

    It really does feel like movies are dumbing down.

    • dumbass@lemy.lol
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      8 个月前

      One thing I’ve noticed with newer movies is they do a lot more “tell, don’t show” than old movies.

      Main character seeing old friend: Well if it isn’t my old friend Daniel, we used to roam these streets as kids, I used to have dinner at your house every day, you were like my brother, I would have done anything for you, I haven’t seen you since our other old friend Jake died mysteriously, remember when we used to play videogames all night and made that life long pact that if “HE” returns we will do what it takes to send him back to the world where he emerged from when we were kids and lived right next door to each other, our mothers were best friends until the incident but they never stopped us from being life long best friends forever, we used to play in the streets all night, me you Daniel and Chris, the rat Pac they called us, best friends for life.

      • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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        8 个月前

        Man there’s so many loose ends.

        What was the incident?

        What did the rat pac play in the street? Music? Baseball?

        What video games were you guys playing? Nintendo, Sega, Atari, Sony, SNK, NEC, 3DO?? Whose house?

        Were there any leads in Jakes death?

        How long has it been since you last saw Daniel?

        • dumbass@lemy.lol
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          8 个月前

          What was the incident?

          The incident is what shaped them into the adults they are now, it’s why they ended up in their chosen professions and is what brings them together at the 20 year high school reunion coming up, but they must never speak of it.

          What did the rat pac play in the street? Music? Baseball?

          They hustled marbles for cash in the street to anyone willing to lose to them, they ran that rural suburban street untill the incident changed everything.

          What video games were you guys playing? Nintendo, Sega, Atari, Sony, SNK, NEC, 3DO?? Whose house?

          NBA Jam on the Sega Mega drive, because they were the cool kids and that’s how you showed it in the early 90s

          Were there any leads in Jakes death?

          The policed ruled it ‘natural causes’ but the rat Pac know it was Him that killed Jake after they unintentionally released Him.

          Were there any leads in Jakes death?

          About 3 hours before that line of text.

    • cole@lemdro.id
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      8 个月前

      I feel like Dune was a good outlier to this. It’s the only movie I’ve seen in theater in the last few years and I really enjoyed not having everything explained to me

      • ECB@feddit.de
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        8 个月前

        That’s such a good point. I really appreciated how it wasn’t scared to let viewers figure things out.

    • GTG3000@programming.dev
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      8 个月前

      Not to lump everything into one pile, but there’s definitely some problems with movie planning nowadays.

      That’s what is pointed out in all those “this movie production literally sacrificed ten VFX studios on a mayan altar” documentaries - some of new directors don’t plan shots ahead, require seeing the result and then re-doing it ad nauseam, and as a result waste WAY more vfx team effort and don’t get good scenes.

      Setting up visual storytelling and using good cinematography is hard - which is why to a lot of people the 3D movies like Spiderverse/Last Wish/Nimona stand out so much, you kinda have to plan ahead for a 3D movie, and even if you don’t modifying a scene is easier (if you do it early enough in production).

      I’d imagine that it’s similar for writing - large monologues like that are probably the outcome of the writing team needing to put all they mean to onto the paper. Maybe also result of focus-testing being passed down directly to writing staff?

      I don’t know, I’m just a random guy on the internet but those are my two cents.

    • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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      8 个月前

      Part of this is the phone addicted culture. A lot of people listen at best to movies and TV, so they make everything accessible to that audience.

      Another related problem is the over reliance on focus groups. The thoughts and opinions of people in LA/NYC/Chicago that are free at 10am on a random Tuesday aren’t representative samples of the current American. It’s even worse as movies move to target the global audience.

    • Zirconium@lemmy.world
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      8 个月前

      This is my issue with a lot of indie horror games and visual novels. (Whatever manlybadasshero plays). There’s just unnecessary details (you open the door). That makes me go this is just shit.

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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      8 个月前

      I feel like they make movies to appease the hot take internet culture. If a few people don’t understand how a guy with magic powers in a room full of cloning tanks could be brought back from the dead, you end up with endless “Somehow Palpatine returned” memes and it becomes a whole thing. So they’ve compensated (maybe over-compensated) and make sure every detail is explained fully to avoid that kind of reaction. They also have to make sure they make jokes about something being corny before people on the internet make the lame jokes.

      Rise of Skywalker was probably the last popcorn movie where there was a lot of “show don’t tell” going on and pretty much all of the commentary about it on the internet indicates people think it’s wrong to do that. To be sure there were other problems with that movie, but people got very fixated on criticizing the decision made to not over-explain.

      Somehow… movies have to explain every little detail now.

      • BallsandBayonets@lemmy.world
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        8 个月前

        Rise of Skywalker neither showed nor telled (told). Supposedly the story behind Palpatine coming back was told in a temporary series of missions in the Star Wars Battlefront video game (and Squadrons had some hints in their too if I recall). Of course that was a big failure so now the TV show writers are filling in the blanks because at least they are fans first and money-makers second.

        And of course RoS was a giant overreaction to Disney panicking over a vocal minority of perpetually displeased fans didn’t like Star Wars being taken in a new direction in TLJ, so they asked JJ Abrams to take a wet sack of memberberries and turn it into a movie (again).

      • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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        8 个月前

        I think the big reason everything is a reboot these days is that it makes marketing it a lot easier. If you told me there’s a new sci fi show coming out I might watch it. But if you told me they rebooted SG1 I’d definitely watch it.

  • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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    8 个月前

    I think the biggest reason is that the actors were allowed to act together. Modern movies use so many digital effects that actors aren’t even on set together sometimes. It’s hard to have the same emotions looking at a green screen and a guy in a morph suit.

    • JonnyJest@lemmy.world
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      8 个月前

      Just for the first one, right? I remember Ian Mckellen had a breakdown on set because he was sitting in front of the table at Bag End with nothing around him but green screen and was struggling without any other actors.

      • Hasherm0n@lemmy.world
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        8 个月前

        IIRC that was on the set of one of the Hobbit movies.

        The Lord of the Rings was shot mostly using practical effects.

      • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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        8 个月前

        That’s true, but it was a single scene, not the majority of the movie. Almost every scene with hobbits involved forced perspective.

    • RedAggroBest@lemmy.world
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      8 个月前

      This is an answer I’m not seeing here enough. The score for LotR just FORCES you to feel the feelings. Don’t wanna be happy? Too bad, we’re in the Shire bitch.

      • Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        8 个月前

        Don’t want to experience evil metalworking industry? Welcome to Orthanc, maggot, we makin’ swords today.

  • affiliate@lemmy.world
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    8 个月前

    the problem is that a lot of modern shows/movies spend 2 hours explaining a characters backstory before you give a shit. there’s also a lot of “tell, don’t show” going on

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    8 个月前

    It’s worth noting that the Lord of the Rings in book form is very long because it goes into so much depth about each character’s history. One of the things that the author intentionally did was world building. If you wanted to get the whole plot line in, you could do so in a third the length.

    So then when it was adapted to movie format, you had three things going for it. First, a lot of people read the books and loved them, second, the cast and crew had a lot to work with, and third, there was ample budget.

    • shastaxc@lemm.ee
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      8 个月前

      Idk about “ample budget”. I was watching the director’s commentary on the Two Towers and he mentions one week where the studio was trying to decide whether to green light money for the film and Peter Jackson knew that he had nothing to say that would convince them, in fact he thought it would dissuade them because they wouldn’t see the benefit on the way he was spending the money. So he went out to a remote location to do the filming for several days intentionally to avoid their phone calls lol. I think that was when they were filming the battle for Helm’s Deep. Apparently it worked because after he had the footage from that week to show them, they decided it was good enough to justify the price.

  • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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    8 个月前

    They’d rather have the protagonist run around screaming like a moron for 20 minutes for comedic effect instead instead of putting any effort into developing characters

  • MrJameGumb@lemmy.world
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    8 个月前

    This is how I felt when I tried to watch Rogue One. It’s part of one of my favorite franchises yet it is also an entire feature length film without one single character in it who I give a shit about.

    It’s maddening.

    • psmgx@lemmy.world
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      8 个月前

      Rogue One was better than most of the drivel Disney has put out. Thank god there were finally some new characters. anitnal revolves around the same 3 fucking families.

    • tetris11@lemmy.ml
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      8 个月前

      That’s why it was so great. It wasn’t about the hero punching people in the face whilst an army of troopers consistently fail to shoot them, or destiny babies failing upwards towards success.

      This was a movie about normal people. Nameless people who were all parts of a whole, an orchestra of concerted effort to overcome the insurmountable. Some of them were in it for the ideal, but most of them were just in it to keep the person next to them alive. No one will sing their praises, and they don’t expect anyone to, as none of them expected to see the light of day.

      It was one of the most humanist movies I’ve seen in a long time, universe be damned.

    • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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      8 个月前

      Oddly? I gave more of a shit about most of the characters in rogue one than all the characters in the sequels combined.

      • MrJameGumb@lemmy.world
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        8 个月前

        I wasn’t a huge fan of the sequels either lol the first one was ok but after that they were pretty awful. I at least felt like I kind of knew the characters by the end though

        • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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          8 个月前

          I felt like the first one wasn’t impressive, but suggested at least some sort of plan. I felt like there were characters to get to know?

          And then there weren’t.

  • jenny_ball@lemmy.world
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    8 个月前

    a lot more care was taken with movie production in general in prior years than now and it shows

    • 24_at_the_withers@lemmy.world
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      8 个月前

      Eh, I think it’s more related to survivorship bias of the movies we remember. Most movies from decades ago were utter trash then too, we mostly remember the good ones while most of the rubbish fades away and is forgotten.

      • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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        8 个月前

        While it’s definitely a partial survivors bias, I can’t really name any recent movies that stand out as timeless classics. Avengers Onfinity War/Endgame was a massive point in time, but hardly something to watch endlessly even now. Star Wars is still clinging to movies made nearly 50 years ago. Spider man had a moment being the first post covid movie, but the film isn’t memorable. Kingsman has been a great revival of the spy movie genre, but it’s not masterpiece level. You could make a case for The Dark Knight, but it’s easily just as memorable due to Ledger’s death than the film’s quality.

        • Wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          8 个月前

          Don’t know if we’re counting animated movies but I feel like the Spiderverse movies will be a timeless classic.

          • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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            8 个月前

            Id say it has a chance, I’m not sure it stands up to peak Pixar levels, but it does a great job telling a story while honoring comics in general.

          • Gabu@lemmy.world
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            8 个月前

            They already are, and heavily influenced animation studios everywhere. Even in Japan, the land of god-tier animation, some studios learned a lot from Spiderverse.

          • NostraDavid@programming.dev
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            8 个月前

            Puss in Boots: The Last Wish

            I only watched it due to internet hype making me curious enough to check it out. If anyone reading this still hasn’t seen it: Just do it. Trust an internet stranger and just jump blindly into it. Do it. You will not regret it.

        • Gabu@lemmy.world
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          8 个月前

          Star Wars is still clinging to movies made nearly 50 years ago.

          RotS was released in 2005.

          Spider man had a moment being the first post covid movie […]

          Spiderverse was released in 2018 and became an instant classic, influencing animated movies throughout the whole world.

          Kingsman has been a great revival of the spy movie genre, but it’s not masterpiece level.

          Because the spy movie genre is largely a poor and uninteresting concept. The fact Bond was so successful still makes me confused.

          • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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            8 个月前

            RotS is the best Prequel movie, but calling it classic is a bit of a stretch. Spidervese is probably the best thing recently.