Consequently, hosting a lavish banquet or ordering lobster is no longer a sufficient signifier of status; today, a sign of true wealth is the ability to forgo food entirely. Eating essentially betrays a personā€™s most basic human needs; in an era obsessed with ā€˜self-optimisationā€™, not eating suggests that a person is somehow ā€˜beyondā€™ needs and has achieved total mastery of their body with a heightened capacity for efficiency and focus.

ā€œThere is a history in Judeo-Christian societies ā€“ and likely in many other religions, hence the widespread practice of fasting ā€“ where demonstrating a lack of need for material things, especially food, and being able to demonstrate self-control and discipline are signs of spiritual transcendence,ā€ Dr Woolhouse says. Famously, Italian saint Catherine of Siena would fast for prolonged periods of time as a means of demonstrating her devotion to God through extreme self-control. ā€œBut thereā€™s also a class dimension to this,ā€ Dr Woolhouse continues, ā€œbecause being able to demonstrate a lack of need for material goods, like food, suggests social transcendence too; itā€™s symbolic of living a life whereby our material needs arenā€™t a daily concern.ā€ She adds that ā€œfad diets are very unlikely to take off in societies where there are food shortages or food insecurity.ā€

Itā€™s still jarring to watch celebrities openly admit to fasting for 23 hours a day or taking 14 different supplement pills in lieu of a balanced breakfast. ā€œIt normalises and sanctions practises that in other contexts would be regarded as eating disordered,ā€ Dr Woolhouse says. ā€œWhen eating practices are packaged as ā€˜done in the name of healthā€™, they are more socially acceptable and difficult to contest.ā€ She points out that a normal teenage girl restricting her diet in the same way as Johnson would likely be regarded as ill and in need of medical intervention. ā€œWhat we, as a society, regard as ā€˜normalā€™ and ā€˜abnormalā€™ eating is contextual and largely rides on how those eating practices are framed.ā€

Itā€™s obvious but bears reiterating that extreme, fad diet trends are both ineffectual and dangerous. But this trend isnā€™t really about food or health. Itā€™s about performance. Itā€™s a way for the moneyed classes to signal their wealth and status and posture as above us mere mortals who debase ourselves by eating.

  • EelBolshevikism [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    5 months ago

    To be honest, no offense to you and im sure it works for your body, but im extremely skeptical of fasting as being a universally applicable ā€œboosterā€.

    First of all, it appeals to this trend Iā€™ve noticed that people seem to correlate indulgence with weakness, and abstinence with strength. It coincides with this tendency to believe our desires are naturally problematic, that they need to be repressed rather than listened to as a communication of our body.

    Secondly, there have been studies associating this stuff with an increased chance of heart disease. That study was specifically about intermittent fasting, but if someone is already at risk it doesnā€™t seem like a good idea.

    Finally, itā€™s just not practical for everyone. Lots of people have gut issues or physical disorders that make fasting significantly more painful and impractical than it would be for others. I canā€™t go too long without eating - my body starts becoming extremely nauseous. I assume this is true for a lot of people and not just me.

    Overall Iā€™m sure it works for you but itā€™s just too much of a ā€œself-help-bookā€ ā€œminimalistā€-coded solution for me to see it as a universally good practice.

    • Long reply incoming.

      im extremely skeptical of fasting as being a universally applicable ā€œboosterā€.

      Itā€™s not universal, but it is broadly beneficial for most people, especially people with western diets. You can be skeptical of that, but it really is backed up by the science, with very clear physiological mechanisms explaining how and why itā€™s beneficial. Anecdotally, almost everyone who gives it a try will also have positive things to say about it. Normally, I wouldnā€™t really count that anecdotal thing in, but Iā€™m not just talking about people trying new internet trends here, weā€™re talking about something on a scale of (for example) hundreds of millions or more Muslims who do fasting as a spiritual practice and religious observance.

      As far as coinciding with the tendencies you mentioned, once againā€¦ fasting is not some new fad. It may have gained some mainstream popularity (as it has in the past since fads are often cyclic) and is recently getting discussed in the same rounds along with actual fad diets, but like I mentioned before, fasting is something that almost every major religion has incorporated in some way. You talk about listening to our bodies and the folly of trying to repress our desires but a major, even basic part of listening to our bodies is learning how to balance our desires. Iā€™d agree that there has been a puritanical current especially in American culture that demonizes natural and healthy desires resulting in their repression in deeply unhealthy ways. But that doesnā€™t mean that overindulgence doesnā€™t exist or that it isnā€™t a major problem for a lot of people, or even that there isnā€™t also a precedent for overindulgence on a cultural level as well, given the capitalist emphasis on consumerism. Despite the bourgeois shitheads in the OP article, itā€™s no secret that traditionally the way to show off wealth has been through flaunting excess.

      As with most things, there is a healthy balance that needs to be found between short term desires and long term health. Iā€™d hope that isnā€™t a controversial thing to say. The exact location of that balance varies with the individual, but to look at modern western diets along with all the severe health consequences they are known to be responsible for and conclude that the problem is the suppression of desire is justā€¦ well, misguided to put it lightly. Like we know the addictive nature of the processed sugars that are pumped into food for the express purpose of getting people to keep eating long after theyā€™ve had even ten times the amount that would be healthy to have in a day. It isnā€™t a personā€™s fault for having the desire to eat more because it is literally a physiological addiction, that again, has been intentionally manufactured to drive consumption and therefore profits. But the immediate answer for someone suffering from that addiction is absolutely not to give in to the desire and just eat more. No more than the answer for someone with an opiate or alcohol addiction is to just indulge when the desire is felt, but rather to make an attempt to curb the consumption of opiates/alcohol/sugar despite the sometimes overwhelming desire to give into it. Listening to your body is much more about recognizing what itā€™s telling you about its long-term well-being than it is about sating its immediate desires. And for the vast majority of people especially in the west/global north, fasting is a positive way to respond to the malaise their body is screaming at them with. Almost everyone who really tries fasting, including people in this thread, report that they feel much better as a result of doing so. That is listening to your body.

      there have been studies associating this stuff with an increased chance of heart disease. That study was specifically about intermittent fasting, but if someone is already at risk it doesnā€™t seem like a good idea.

      Iā€™d take a look at that study then, but with an extremely skeptical eye, considering there have been literally scores of studies saying the exact opposite. Thee major lifestyle element that most strongly predicts longevity is restricted caloric intake. In other words, of all the factors that we have been able to find that correlate with people living longer lives, is people who have taken in fewer calories over their life. This is well known as any quick search can quickly confirm for you. As another obvious example, again, we know through countless studies with overwhelming evidence how bad a high intake of sugar is, how it directly leads to heart disease and of course diabetes. Diabetes (specifically type II), as you may know, is epidemic in the US. Diabetes essentially is insulin resistance, and the way to fix insulin resistance is to stop all consumption of sugars/carbohydrates for a time, ie, to fast. Iā€™d recommend looking up ā€œfasting + insulin resistance.ā€ This is all stuff well known to science and medicine, but there is so much more I could get into. Like what we now know about autophagy and how fasting massively speeds it up, the role of mTOR signaling pathway in fasting, or the evolutionary reasons that fasting is good for a species that through most of its existence experienced famines where it had to cope with surviving without food for lengths of time. (The ā€œ3 square meals a dayā€ thing is a very recent phenomenon). Iā€™d post links of the many many studies that back all this up if itā€™s absolutely necessary, but it can all be easily confirmed with a web search. Whatever studies youā€™re talking about, if they are as you say, are in complete contradiction of well-established consensus.

      Finally, itā€™s just not practical for everyone. Lots of people have gut issues or physical disorders that make fasting significantly more painful and impractical than it would be for others. I canā€™t go too long without eating - my body starts becoming extremely nauseous. I assume this is true for a lot of people and not just me.

      Fasting is not appropriate for everyone in every circumstance and I never implied otherwise. There are absolutely people who should not do long fasts, and though fewer, there are even people who shouldnā€™t do intermittent fasting. Definitely. But they are in the minority. Itā€™s funny that you mention gut issues because one of the first and most successful methods for treating the most common gut issues (I know a number of people with colitis and IBS, the latter I used to have myself) is fasting and elimination diets. This is what gets recommended by doctors, and for good reason. I have no idea what your issues are, so I wouldnā€™t presume to tell you that fasting would be the answer for you, but something to consider is that almost every treatment for an ailment will cause initial discomfort. For many people who experience that normal nausea upon forgoing food longer than theyā€™re used to, including me, itā€™s because itā€™s literally a type of withdrawal. Your body has adapted to having food at the frequent intervals we usually eat, particularly carbohydrates which can be quickly converted to energy. Fat can also be used as a source of energy but your body wonā€™t tap into that longer-term energy storage mechanism until the carbohydrates have been used up. If your body is not used to doing that, it will be uncomfortable. But so too is it uncomfortable for a brain used to a steady supply of external opioids to go without them until it adapts to using the endogenous ones again.

      As for practicality, sure. Thatā€™s a different issue. Fasting takes a commitment and very likely will include that initial discomfort. For people barely scraping by and having to work multiple jobs and keep their energy constantly up, taking the downtime that one would need for (as an example) a 3-day fast just isnā€™t feasible. That said, if they had some respite for a while and some time to tend to their health, most of them would find that fasting would help them. The same way someone who needs coffee to function and go to work but gets no sleep would find that if they could quit caffeine and get better sleep, it would help them cope with work in the long term, but quitting coffee just isnā€™t feasible in order to keep up with the necessary grind. On the other hand, someone who is in a relatively easy position to give up coffee and get better sleep would not be listening to their body or doing themselves any favors by using the excuse ā€œugh, I just feel like crap when I donā€™t get my caffeine.ā€ Iā€™m not implying thatā€™s you, but it definitely is some people who would pooh-pooh something genuinely positive because it seems uncomfortable at first.

      Overall Iā€™m sure it works for you but itā€™s just too much of a ā€œself-help-bookā€ ā€œminimalistā€-coded solution for me to see it as a universally good practice.

      It seems like rather black-and-white thinking to keep referring to it as being either a universally good practice or typical self-help-book bunkum. It is not universal. But to view it through the lens of being ā€œminimalistā€ or worse, JP-esque self-help bullshit is a very narrow and inaccurate way to look at something that has such a long history, cultural significance, established medical use, and overwhelming scientific consensus.

      • EelBolshevikism [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        5 months ago

        You talk about listening to our bodies and the folly of trying to repress our desires but a major, even basic part of listening to our bodies is learning how to balance our desires. Iā€™d agree that there has been a puritanical current especially in American culture that demonizes natural and healthy desires resulting in their repression in deeply unhealthy ways. But that doesnā€™t mean that overindulgence doesnā€™t exist or that it isnā€™t a major problem for a lot of people, or even that there isnā€™t also a precedent for overindulgence on a cultural level as well, given the capitalist emphasis on consumerism. Despite the bourgeois shitheads in the OP article, itā€™s no secret that traditionally the way to show off wealth has been through flaunting excess.

        I actually disagree with the notion that our goal is to ā€œbalanceā€ our desires. I genuinely think every single moment we have to repress our short-term desires is a systemic failure. From both a society-wide and a general systemic perspective, I donā€™t think itā€™s sustainable to rely on willpower as a band-aid for things that are fundamentally social issues. Alcoholism and addiction do generally require short-term ignorance of oneā€™s desires and self-control, but, there has been a decent amount of support for the theory that a lot of those tendencies are caused by social issues and lack in other areas. Or in other words, the desire is (sometimes) entirely genuine- Itā€™s just that indulging it directly isnā€™t a good idea. This is why I have such significant skepticism of any treatment that requires immense will-power over a long period. Yes, some things do require will-power to accomplish, but the fact it takes so much often indicates a separate issue on top of it. Or, in other words, I am skeptical of overindulgence, but I am far more skeptical of the will as a solution to it.

        Diabetes (specifically type II), as you may know, is epidemic in the US. Diabetes essentially is insulin resistance, and the way to fix insulin resistance is to stop all consumption of sugars/carbohydrates for a time, ie, to fast. Iā€™d recommend looking up ā€œfasting + insulin resistance.ā€ This is all stuff well known to science and medicine, but there is so much more I could get into.

        The idea that diabetes can in any way be ā€œcuredā€ by simply reversing what the general social impression of what causes diabetes (overindulge and overeat), is something I view with immense suspicion. I honestly donā€™t really care if thereā€™s a lot of ā€œscienceā€ behind it or even fasting in general- Plenty of extremely bullshit ideas were considered genuine science for a while and viewed uncritically because of social norms and values. I would consider a lot of what youā€™re suggesting to be extremely at risk of being in a similar situation.

        It seems like rather black-and-white thinking to keep referring to it as being either a universally good practice or typical self-help-book bunkum

        No, Iā€™m saying that the idea itā€™s universally helpful is self-help-book bunkum, not the idea itā€™s helpful AT ALL. Itā€™s not the idea that itā€™s helpful for some people that Iā€™m skeptical of, but itā€™s status as something that can just fix a lot of physiological issues. It smacks too much of the bias most doctors have of blaming every issue a fat person experiences on their weight when the majority of the time it has nothing to do with it.

        Edit: I want to be very clear, I think it (fasting) has a lot of uses. It wouldnā€™t be a common practice in so many religions if it was pointless. Basically all pushback I give is really only being given because Iā€™m suspicious in general of the tendency to associate health and numerous health practices both with universal applicability and moral value. Iā€™d probably give fasting a go myself, probably once I have time to do it without being distracted during work or study due to it, but I think being overly pessimistic about this stuff about itā€™s likely uses is kind of a good idea in general because it ENSURES that, when we do it, it isnā€™t because of our protestant work ethic based culture, but because it works for us and our own goals.

        Edit 2: Removed disrespectful statement