Except nobody was physically forced down and vaccinated against their will. You can still choose not to be vaccinated, but choices have consequences. I’m not saying the government should arrest people for not being vaccinated, but people, institutions, companies and hospitals should definitely have the choice to not want to let those people inside.
I think he was saying not that it happened, but that people wanted it to happen really really bad, and that many of those same people who wanted it (or supported it, not achieved it), also support pro choice when it comes to what amounts to an ideologically similar issue (my body my choice, bodily autonomy.)
Tbf, if he is indeed saying that, he’s right, pro-choice people did want forced vaccinations by law, though you’re also right that they did not get forced vaccinations by law.
Before any reactionaries jump down my throat, I’m pro-choice myself and am simply trying to clarify what looks to be a misunderstanding in these couple comments here.
I’ve never known anyone who wanted to physically force people to get vaccinated. I did know many people, myself included, who absolutely wanted mandates. Don’t want to get vaccinated? Sure, that’s your choice. But other people get to choose not to be around you, and this includes your employer or any store owner or transport company, etc.
Idk whether the misunderstanding comes from not knowing what a mandate is, but above you say:
I did know many people, myself included, who absolutely wanted mandates (an authoritative command especially a formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior one)
But then go on to say that you didn’t mean “the definition of mandate” by your use of the word “mandate,” instead you meant a new definition created by you that boils down to voluntary association, not “mandates.”
So, which is it? Do/did you support the government forcing people by law to get vaccinated (mandates), or do you simply support people’s right not to employ or hang with people on the other side of their vaccination opinions (voluntary association)?
Please stop, you’re so transparent. Vaccine mandates already existed in places, which has never meant that people are physically forced to get vaccinated. Like in schools, or when you want to work in a hospital. There are mandates. Don’t want to get vaccinated? Then you don’t get to work there. You’ll never be physically forced to vaccinate.
When my employer wanted everyone to get vaccinated, that was also called a mandate. People could still not get vaccinated, it’s their choice, but then they weren’t allowed in the building. No government violence required.
There, plenty of mandates that have nothing whatsoever to do with physically being forced to get vaccinated. Just that when you choose not to, there are consequences. Actions have consequences, who knew?
If you still insist on pretending not to understand this, think of it this way: If you choose to not shower and never wear clean clothes (this is the choice you make), nobody will physically force you into a shower. But when you’re walking around smelling like weeks old sweat and garbage, your employer will definitely not let you come back to work (and this would be the consequence). Same goes for walking around like a virus dispenser.
Honestly I’m more confused as to why you pretend there weren’t people calling for prison for the unvaccinated. We agree that voluntary association is good, why deny there were also people who wanted a government mandate?
Sure though, I suppose you’re right, “employer mandates” is a thing, I concede that point (well, at least that it still doesn’t mean optional, but it doesn’t necessarily mean governmental). That doesn’t change the fact however that people were calling for more than that, people were calling for arrests, maybe not you but those people did exist. It is that which the above poster was comparing to abortion, not the much lighter version you’re talking about.
I never said these people don’t exist at all. I said I’ve never met one. So I guess I’m saying they’re definitely a tiny minority.
And again: employer mandates still mean it’s optional. Absolutely optional. It’s optional because it’s not forced.
You know what baffles me the most about this, though? That you’re so hell bent on defending another random poster, who still hasn’t even taken the time to clarify his own post or even respond to me. How can you be so sure that’s what he meant?
Sorry Im taking so long to reply (had a rough couple of days including getting to play veterinary ambulance twice and getting my car fixed but whoops-not-really). Only now getting to look over the responses.
He’s got the right general idea though - there were lots of folks calling for government COVID vaccine mandates (but were not successful in actually getting them) and most of those calling for it were also decidedly pro-choice because of bodily autonomy.
There aren’t a whole lot of controversial cases for bodily autonomy outside abortion, but we did have one big obvious one that’s not that old…
Maybe a loud minority, sure, but it still seems to me that he’d be talking about those people, not the people it seems he clearly wasn’t talking about (at least to me).
Idk, we had a mandated meeting at work on thursday that was very much not optional, in direct opposition to the occasional meeting that we have that is optional (those are still mandatory for management, but that means they do not have the option to “not go,” while those for whom it is optional, not mandatory, can “not go.”) Anyway I’ve already conceded that mandatory, while not meaning optional by any stretch of the imagination, does also apply to situations as you’ve described, this is a moot point. Mandatory doesn’t mean “hold you the fuck down and stab you,” it literally means “required by a law or rule.”
The point I’ve conceded is that technically you’re right, “rule” can mean work rules not government rules, the point I have not conceded is “he meant those using it to refer to ‘law’ not ‘rule.’”
And no, I’m just saying what I think he meant due to clear context clues, frankly I was just going to leave the one comment but then you misunderstood that and now we’re here. I’m hoping this will be the last time I have to comment about it quite frankly.
Don’t worry, I’m tired of these discussions too. I’ve had them too many times over the past years. We obviously use different definitions of the word ‘optional’ and that’s fine. Let’s just leave it at that.
Yes I have, scouts honor. I mean, they were stupid people, but they were people who wanted to imprison people for not being vaccinated nonetheless. One may say that opinion would automatically qualify one as a stupid person btw, but I mean they were independently stupid.
In any case we’ve found the crux of the issue, you don’t believe those people existed. Well, they did.
Tbf I haven’t ever met a holocaust denier myself, nor a flat earther, but I’m not going to say “those are just small numbers” or “those people don’t exist” if someone is talking about them.
Except nobody was physically forced down and vaccinated against their will. You can still choose not to be vaccinated, but choices have consequences. I’m not saying the government should arrest people for not being vaccinated, but people, institutions, companies and hospitals should definitely have the choice to not want to let those people inside.
I think he was saying not that it happened, but that people wanted it to happen really really bad, and that many of those same people who wanted it (or supported it, not achieved it), also support pro choice when it comes to what amounts to an ideologically similar issue (my body my choice, bodily autonomy.)
Tbf, if he is indeed saying that, he’s right, pro-choice people did want forced vaccinations by law, though you’re also right that they did not get forced vaccinations by law.
Before any reactionaries jump down my throat, I’m pro-choice myself and am simply trying to clarify what looks to be a misunderstanding in these couple comments here.
I’ve never known anyone who wanted to physically force people to get vaccinated. I did know many people, myself included, who absolutely wanted mandates. Don’t want to get vaccinated? Sure, that’s your choice. But other people get to choose not to be around you, and this includes your employer or any store owner or transport company, etc.
I have, so we’re at an anecdotal Mexican standoff it would seem.
“Mandates” doesn’t mean “optional,” in fact it’s quite the opposite of that.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mandate
Idk whether the misunderstanding comes from not knowing what a mandate is, but above you say:
But then go on to say that you didn’t mean “the definition of mandate” by your use of the word “mandate,” instead you meant a new definition created by you that boils down to voluntary association, not “mandates.”
So, which is it? Do/did you support the government forcing people by law to get vaccinated (mandates), or do you simply support people’s right not to employ or hang with people on the other side of their vaccination opinions (voluntary association)?
Please stop, you’re so transparent. Vaccine mandates already existed in places, which has never meant that people are physically forced to get vaccinated. Like in schools, or when you want to work in a hospital. There are mandates. Don’t want to get vaccinated? Then you don’t get to work there. You’ll never be physically forced to vaccinate.
When my employer wanted everyone to get vaccinated, that was also called a mandate. People could still not get vaccinated, it’s their choice, but then they weren’t allowed in the building. No government violence required.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_mandates_in_the_United_States#Private_mandates
There, plenty of mandates that have nothing whatsoever to do with physically being forced to get vaccinated. Just that when you choose not to, there are consequences. Actions have consequences, who knew?
If you still insist on pretending not to understand this, think of it this way: If you choose to not shower and never wear clean clothes (this is the choice you make), nobody will physically force you into a shower. But when you’re walking around smelling like weeks old sweat and garbage, your employer will definitely not let you come back to work (and this would be the consequence). Same goes for walking around like a virus dispenser.
Honestly I’m more confused as to why you pretend there weren’t people calling for prison for the unvaccinated. We agree that voluntary association is good, why deny there were also people who wanted a government mandate?
Sure though, I suppose you’re right, “employer mandates” is a thing, I concede that point (well, at least that it still doesn’t mean optional, but it doesn’t necessarily mean governmental). That doesn’t change the fact however that people were calling for more than that, people were calling for arrests, maybe not you but those people did exist. It is that which the above poster was comparing to abortion, not the much lighter version you’re talking about.
I never said these people don’t exist at all. I said I’ve never met one. So I guess I’m saying they’re definitely a tiny minority.
And again: employer mandates still mean it’s optional. Absolutely optional. It’s optional because it’s not forced.
You know what baffles me the most about this, though? That you’re so hell bent on defending another random poster, who still hasn’t even taken the time to clarify his own post or even respond to me. How can you be so sure that’s what he meant?
Sorry Im taking so long to reply (had a rough couple of days including getting to play veterinary ambulance twice and getting my car fixed but whoops-not-really). Only now getting to look over the responses.
He’s got the right general idea though - there were lots of folks calling for government COVID vaccine mandates (but were not successful in actually getting them) and most of those calling for it were also decidedly pro-choice because of bodily autonomy.
There aren’t a whole lot of controversial cases for bodily autonomy outside abortion, but we did have one big obvious one that’s not that old…
Maybe a loud minority, sure, but it still seems to me that he’d be talking about those people, not the people it seems he clearly wasn’t talking about (at least to me).
Idk, we had a mandated meeting at work on thursday that was very much not optional, in direct opposition to the occasional meeting that we have that is optional (those are still mandatory for management, but that means they do not have the option to “not go,” while those for whom it is optional, not mandatory, can “not go.”) Anyway I’ve already conceded that mandatory, while not meaning optional by any stretch of the imagination, does also apply to situations as you’ve described, this is a moot point. Mandatory doesn’t mean “hold you the fuck down and stab you,” it literally means “required by a law or rule.”
The point I’ve conceded is that technically you’re right, “rule” can mean work rules not government rules, the point I have not conceded is “he meant those using it to refer to ‘law’ not ‘rule.’”
And no, I’m just saying what I think he meant due to clear context clues, frankly I was just going to leave the one comment but then you misunderstood that and now we’re here. I’m hoping this will be the last time I have to comment about it quite frankly.
Don’t worry, I’m tired of these discussions too. I’ve had them too many times over the past years. We obviously use different definitions of the word ‘optional’ and that’s fine. Let’s just leave it at that.
No you haven’t, you fucking liar
Yes I have, scouts honor. I mean, they were stupid people, but they were people who wanted to imprison people for not being vaccinated nonetheless. One may say that opinion would automatically qualify one as a stupid person btw, but I mean they were independently stupid.
In any case we’ve found the crux of the issue, you don’t believe those people existed. Well, they did.
There’s 7 billion people in the world, there’s someone who believes anything. Statistically they’re irrelevant.
I guess I should say, you haven’t met any number of these people beyond what can be rounded to 0% of the population.
Tbf I haven’t ever met a holocaust denier myself, nor a flat earther, but I’m not going to say “those are just small numbers” or “those people don’t exist” if someone is talking about them.
I would. It’s statistically true, although holocaust deniers are ticking up due to increased fascism globally.