I think of skyrim like Jay Leno.

No one would say he’s the best comedian, or even great. But he’s unoffensive and kinda funny to most people.

Do you enjoy other games in that vein/genre?

I think if you compare it to games from the last 10 years, then yes.

But at the time it was miles ahead of everything else. Most RPG’s were incredibly unfriendly to beginners, throwing paragraphs of text to read, spreadsheets of numbers to understand, incredibly unfair mechanics, making the player make decisions without understanding them, and legacy mechanics that traced their routes back to tabletop wargaming. The marketing for RPG’s revolved around hyping up bigger numbers of systems, skills, weapons, armor, items, spells, and whatever else you can think of. You can still go back and have fun, but the ethos of a lot of RPG’s was quantity over quality. They were very difficult to get into, and most RPG’s kind of had the assumption that the player already knew how to play RPG’s.

It may seem silly to say that Skyrim was a break from that. After all, it has radiant quests, tons of NPC’s, a pretty big map, tons of dungeons, etc. But it streamlined a ton and made it accessible. The quantity of voice lines was incredible for the time, and reducing the reliance on text made couch gaming easier. The leveling system is incredibly intuitive and fun, and IMO the best I’ve seen before or since. A lot of systems exist to allow customization of either the roleplaying or mechanical experience, but most of those systems are optional. You can just bash through the game with the equipment you get in Helgen if you want.

The game isn’t perfect, but when I see criticisms it’s usually that people want to add more systems or more complexity. That’s the kind of thing that always sounds great in an armchair thinking about it, but when you actually put it in a game the game usually ends up bloated and tedious. It’s great to add mods later after a couple playthrough, but it’s easy to overwhelm new players with things like a spell creation system.

Whenever I see people talking on the Internet about trying Skyrim for the first time, I see a lot of other players recommending to start with mods. I also see a lot of people saying they bounced off of Skyrim, and I think there’s a correlation. I ran into similar experiences with Civ and Cities Skylines: it’s tempting to add in tons of stuff to try to get the best experience possible, but sometimes it’s better to start simple.

Skyrim has bugs, but most of them are either just visual, hilarious, or can be fixed by re-loading the area or the game.

It’s not perfect, but overall I think it’s fair to include Skyrim in the conversation for… Idk, top-20 ish games of all time.

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I’d love to see a big budget AAA low-res pixel art game, like what you’d see on a GBA.

I think this take got ice-cold shortly after Windwaker released.

The issue is that game developers have been using this as a crutch to do less and still charge full-price. Even with Windwaker, I always found the art style was inappropriate for the tone the rest of the game tried to set. It really felt more like they were trying to save time and money than actually having something that serves that art. That style worked pretty well in the handheld games, but I just don’t think it holds up as well as Twilight Princess on a big screen.

I enjoy the occasional 16-bit style indie game, but I’m not paying $60 or $70 for that. I love Supergiant games, and they all look amazing, but even they know that art style can only push the price so far. There’s also value in a game that is realistic and not stylized, especially in military shooters and racing games.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have AAA games from big studios selling for full-price that have neither. Look at GameFreak’s Switch games: terrible quality textures, uninspired lighting, bad draw distance, terrible FPS, and they literally cut to a black screen describing what your character does instead of animating anything. And the art style is just the most generic anime-style imaginable. It looks like Nintendo too the Mii system and just made some minor updates and used that to make human models. This may be a hot take, but I think the models in TotK and BotW are the same. The devs create some fancy clothes, hair, and accessories, but the actual models are bland. It’s essentially the Mii system.

Graphics and art style are not mutually exclusive. It’s fair to ask for both in a full-price game.

What about simple graphics that still need a server farm to run correctly, or intricate graphics on a potato PC? Would you still say art style >> graphics?

This is why Smash Bros is the goat.

Low barrier for entry but super high skill ceiling.

I’ve always wanted to get into fighting games but I never really have because of this exactly. It feels like a chore to learn all the combos and the fighting feels weird and stiff to me because of them.

Fighting games should not be QTE

I think the combos in Street Fighter are already too much.

How should I twist the stick to make the special attack for this character? Hold on, pause the game so I can look up. Oh, I filled up the ultra attack meter, let me check how to perform it for this character.

They should just adopt the control scheme they implemented for Ryu in Smash Bros. Forward + B for Hadouken, Up + B for Shuriyuken, etc.

Guilty Gear Strive and smash have these combos though, and just like street fighter they aren’t required to do well at beginner levels(even at higher levels you can get by with basic bnb combos).

The main thing fighting games need to do better is teach new players, as it isn’t clear what you should be learning as a beginner. That’s probably why so many people think its combos they have to learn.

@simple @LeylaaLovee I think where we are now with fighting games is exactly where it should stay. Auto combos and modern controls make it so the bar to entry is super low, but they need to be scaled down so that they do less damage and the incentive should always be learn pure combos to get better. At the end of the day there’s no interesting high level play if you can press a button three times and do 30% damage.

I loved Final Fantasy Dissidia for this. Every character has the same basic controls, and the abilities are totally customizable. So I’d make general schemes the same across everyone.

The other things you mentioned, “positioning, timing and improvisation” are all infinitely more important in every fighting game when compared to combos. Long complex combos don’t matter if you can’t land a hit.

If the only combo you know is a 3-hit combo that does 20% HP, and your opponent has a 15-hit combo that does 70% HP, then you just need to hit the opponent 5 times while avoiding getting hit 2 times. If your spacing, reactions, and adaptation are much better than your opponent’s, you can win consistently.

Of course there’s always gonna be different variables when it comes to stuff like specific game knowledge, but that’s usually not as much a skill issue as it is a knowledge check. In the end, stronger fundamentals will always reward you more in the long-run.

They’re basically in an arms race against The Sims

Honestly whenever I see a game on sale for <$20 and I open it only to see 5+ DLCs that increase the price, I just close the page and move on without even bothering to research whether or not I should buy the DLCs. Fuck that mess.

That isn’t a hot take though, everyone and their mother makes jokes about how many DLC there is for Paradox Interactive games.

Here’s the real hot take -> I don’t mind the amount of DLC on Paradox Interactive games. Every game of their I’ve played was really good on its own, and I only buy any DLC after I’ve poured tens of hours into the main game, usually not because I feel like anything was lacking from the main game, but just because I want an excuse to keep playing it. So for all I care, they can keep making all the DLC they want if the base games keep being this good.

Damn, you can voice unpopular opinions on Lemmy and be upvoted for contributing to the discussion. What a wild place this is!

I couldn’t get into DRG, but I’m willing to give it another try.

Holy hell do I disagree with this but I will kill every elf in this thread to defend your right to say it. Rock and stone.

*angry dwarf noises*

Same, couldn’t find the fun in it

Honestly, I think the hype is more for having one of the least toxic online communities.

I think a big part of the hype is how in-tune with the fan base the devs are. It’s just refreshing to feel like the devs are on your side. Rock and Stone.

Removes mask They were a glyphid all along!

I very highly disagree but to each their own, of course.

Wow, I really disagree with you, but upvoted since that’s the point of this thread. I love DRG, however I didn’t love it the first time I played it. I had the same problem, I felt it was sort of shallow and I got lost, both literally in the maps and figuratively since I felt I had no goals and it felt repetitive.

When I tried the game again a year or so later it just clicked. I love the end game of getting overclock mods and trying new weapon builds. I love that each class is fun to play and I don’t mind playing any of them. I love that I can relax with a lower hazard level mission or challenge myself with a higher hazard, but I don’t feel forced to play either since I’m rewarded regardless. I love that the developer that respects their player base and doesn’t have awful microtransactions.

And like others have mentioned I think having such a positive and non competitive community helps a lot. ROCK AND STONE

For some reason I can’t do anything but get lost/lose my party/fail to understand the map in that game.

I got bored after like 8 hours of looking for things to do before I just said “fuck it, I guess I’m killing Ganon.” I don’t know when I am meant to go find the Master Sword but I was able to get it without having a quest and just using my knowledge of Hyrule from past games (“sword in forest!”) and I activated the 4 ancient machines; but then I couldn’t find many side quests that weren’t just fetch quests for things I already had in my posession.

TOTK actually has shit to do. I thought BOTW was a bit bare bones before, but given it was Nintendo’s first go at it I just thought it was that. But TOTK makes BOTW look like an alpha build of a tech demo for TOTK.

Turn on japanese audio.

I killed Ganon and still had no idea how to actually do these things.

There’s shrines near the start of the game that teach you to dodge & flurry rush;

While locking onto an enemy, jump while moving to the side or backwards at the last second before an enemy attacks-- if the timing is done correctly, you can flurry rush. The trick is finding the timing for each enemy type, though you start to get a feel for it.

It’s a grindy mechanic, but I really enjoyed filling out the compendium once you upgrade your Sheikah Slate-- taking pictures of things became the focus of the game for a while, and I’m glad that TOTK improved upon that.

BotW was the first Zelda game for me, and it was such a massive disappointment. It’s just open world without any redeeming qualities, with every single mechanic existing just to support open world. Felt more like a sandbox than a game. It’s fun for about 2-3 hours, but then I just got really bored

I did finish it, because hey I paid for it, but it was not really something too fun for most of the time

EDIT: And I’m still mildly salty that BotW got GOTY in a year we got Nier Automata and Persona 5

It’s a decent game but once I beat it I’ll likely never play it again

And it’s so ok that I have a hard time getting back to it after breaking for a few weeks

Zelda games straight up have a very mediocre story. And often nothing about their world building makes much sense either. They’re definitely a series built only for fun gameplay. Everything else is just glue to hold the gameplay together.

Personally, I love the gameplay and exploration, but you’re definitely right about the story and voice acting.

PS: dodging should be the same as jump (x). Lock on with ZL and point the movement stick to the side you wanna dodge to, the jump. If you pull the stick back, you’ll do a backflip. Whether you want to jump back or to the side depends on the enemy attack (eg, do they swing horizonal or vertical?). If you dodge juuuust before the enemy attacks, you’ll get a slow motion during which you’re prompted to spam y to rapidly attack. Especially useful for tough foes like lynels.

League of legends is 14 years old but still has a huge following and gets regular updates and content.

Is the age of a game really an issue in this live service era we’re in?

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That island in Breath of the Wild though

I know this post is about games specifically, but this is so true about all media. It’s wild how many people bemoan how “bad” movies/tv/music/etc is, when it’s super obvious their only frame of reference is mainstream media that’s mostly doing the same thing all the time. If they took a look just once at indie content creation, they’d see there’s so much cool stuff out there. But their so locked into the “right” media that they don’t consider anything else.

Getting back to games, I rarely ever buy AAA games anymore. There’s so much cool indie stuff being released all the time, it’s simply not worth it to me to deal with all the downsides that come along with AAA games.

I still don’t know how to go about finding these. I’ve had so many bad experiences I hardly know what I like anymore. All I “know” is I’m not big on FPS games. But at the same time I loves The Last of Us.

Ugh you’re not joking. Many of my friends that game complain about the same thing, yet getting them to try any new game that isn’t League of Legends, Apex, Dead by Daylight or Destiny is like pulling teeth.

The worst part is that most of those games have an endless grind or some sort of FOMO mechanics that encourage people to keep playing even though they’re having an awful time.

Completely agreed. Seriously, if anyone genuinely feels like gaming has become stale, go play Hi-Fi Rush and Pizza Tower (both having come out this year).

AAA games are more interested in keeping you on a virtual engagement treadmill than simply being fun.

I’ve never played a military shooter, but Battle Bit is piquing my interest.

While I’m a huge fangirl of the series, they are blatantly “JPRGy” and are always very full of the numerous JRPG tropes, which can definitely give a cliched feeling.

Admittedly, overly complicated isn’t a way I’d describe most of the games, but that definitely fits many of the more recent entries (especially 16). IMO, 7-10 and 12 are the peak Final Fantasy games. My personal favourites being 9 and 10. And even they have some cringe moments that I pretend don’t exist lol (for 9, everything involving Quina or Eiko; for 10, stuff like most of the outfits and the utterly bizarre laughing scene).

I mean, how many other games were tackling climate change, imperialism, genocide, and deindustrialization in a single game in 1998. I’d say some of the story beats can be cliche in FF, but the stories are pretty unique. Unique AND over-complicated.

That said, I live Final Fantasy. I’ve played most of them. I have never really liked the combat in any of them. Not the real time or turn based combat. It feels tedious, and the rock paper scissors mechanics get tiring after a while. I still replay them way too often,

X has the best story of any game I ever played. IV and VI have good stories as well. The rest didn’t pique my interest.

I’m a fan, but even I can admit that they can be fairly ‘typical fantasy saga’. What kinds of videogame stories do you like?

Final fantasy is a really weird series. Every game is different and every fan has their own opinion of which games are good and why, or what’s important in a final fantasy game.

When people tell me that the story is what’s most important in a Final Fantasy game, I know they probably started with 7 or later. I like the parts where you customize your party and explore and have battles and make decisions and solve puzzles and all that video game shit. Yes, the stories enhance the game, but the story was never meant to be the entire game: But after 7, a whole bunch of new fans were like “there’s this new genre of games where the whole point is to watch cut scenes and read a lot of dialogue”, and the games have changed to accommodate that.

I guess my point is maybe try an earlier game (probably 4, 5, or 6) that has better gameplay, and you can get through the dialogue faster without having to watch all the slow animations of characters putting their hands behind their head.