At first this article reads like your typical anti-piracy screed. It rants about how 10x more people watched GoT illegally (confusing them with lost sales) and ends with how downloading movies can get your credit card stolen.
The middle of the article however, destroys the author’s case.
Time Warner (owning company of HBO) CEO Alan Bewkes stated in 2013 how becoming the most illegally streamed show in history was “better than an Emmy” and that torrenting ultimately led to more paid subscriptions.
“We’ve been dealing with this for 20, 30 years—people sharing subs, running wires down the backs of apartment buildings. Our experience is that it leads to more paying subs. I think you’re right that Game of Thrones is the most pirated show in the world and that’s better than an Emmy.”
The CEO of Time Warner, who knows more about the finances of his own show than ForeverGeek writer Tom Llewellyn, championed piracy and said that it brought them more subscribers rather than nearly destroying the show as the article claims.
Needless to say, Tom forwent a rebuttal in favor of writing how you can get malware from downloading it…
Anti-Piracy Propaganda: 0 Truth: 1
Good thing they were fast enough to destroy it with the shittiest last season ever.
See, I think that was the plan all along, to totally own all the losers that pirated GoT, by totally spoiling the show for everyone.
Let’s be real. HBO wanted to hold on to their cash cow for as long as possible, but D&D just shat all over the last season to get that sweet Star Wars cash.
Nobody was on-board with anything in that last season except D&D, who just wanted to finish it off as fast as possible. Not even the actors.
The hilarious thing is how their own bungling of the last season cost them the Star Wars gig. Maybe if they’d actually put in some effort instead of half assing it, they’d have gotten the job. But then again, the show was on a downward spiral since the end of Season 4, and Dumb and Dumber’s only talent was adapting the books really well (and even then, they still fudged details), so I suppose this was bound to happen.
Dumb and Dumber’s only talent was adapting the books really well
Honestly, I want more Hollywood writers who are good at adapting books, instead of hating the source material and doing a terrible job winging it.
I can’t count the number of TV shows ruined by Hollywood writers usurping the universes from multi-million dollar and very successful source material, just to create their own shitty version themselves. In fact, it’s much easier to adapt source material, so I don’t even understand why they don’t do it out of pure laziness. If they could just drop their fucking egos for a bit, they could be as famous as D&D.
Another recent example of a horrible adaptation of a massive franchise is what Paramount did to Halo with their show. I can’t understand why they keep hiring writers that actively hate the source material and are only interested in taking existing stories and mangling them into their own shitty “vision”. It’s like Hollywood either hates writers who have actual passion for the franchises they’re adapting, or they can’t find them, which can’t be the case since these are beloved universes with millions of fans, many of whom are bound to be writers eager to work on an adaptation. They always hire talentless hacks interested in nothing more than a paycheck and doing what they want, not what the fans want. It’s infuriating.
Witcher, Foundation, The Stand, Y: The Last Man, Wheel of Time, recent Star Trek, Rings of Power, Legend of the Seeker… the list goes on and on. Sandman is only good because Neil Gaiman is keeping a tight leash on the series.
And then they cancel the rest that were turning out good, like The Expanse.
Do you notice a pattern?
Every single one of those is either SF or Fantasy.
There are a lot of artsy lovers of literature out there who hate exactly those genres, and who have a burning passion to fix all the (perceived) flaws which (in their view) come baked into them.
As I see it, that’s a big part of the problem: For the last century “a writer” was always “the literary type”. There were some nerds who pretended to be writers. And those wrote pulp, SF, fantasy, and comics. Those were not real writers. You wouldn’t hire one of those, if you wanted to have a real, well crafted story. At least that has been a rather common prejudice for the last 100 years or so.
And now, all of a sudden (over the last 20 years), the most popular franchises, generating the most income, all turned into SF and Fantasy, while eating everything else in their path.
In that context, I don’t think the current situation is all that surprising. If you want to hire “a real writer”, there is a good chance that you will hit one who despises what writers were taught to despise for the last hundred years. In an unlucky twist for everyone involved, that also happens to be what they now have to write.
Didn’t the actor who played Tyrion Lannister stand by the ending? I remember him being salty about criticisms of it. Though to be fair it must really suck to have your breakthrough role go up in flames like that. I wouldn’t want to admit it either. Now I can’t even remember the dude’s name. He was supposed to be a beacon of hope for dwarf actors who wanted serious roles, and the role became a joke.
Maybe that, yeah, but I also remember certain interviews of him being just as passively critical about the last season as Emile Clarke was at the time. As in, he couldn’t really say anything damaging (contractually), but you could tell by the reactions.
As far as dwarf actors, he really did break out into serious roles in various movies, especially in spots where his dwarfism wasn’t a highlight. But, I think Hollywood just treated him as an exception, instead of changing the framing of how they cast actors, which is extremely disappointing.
Then they were quickly fired from Star Wars which is some sweet street justice.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=VUBP1hS8CRc
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Here’s why I dno’t understand, if D&D wanted to dick away so badly, why didn’t the crew just, like, let them go, and bring in another director that was instead respectable and wouldn’t torch the franchise and run?
Heck, it can’t be that hard to come up with people who want to direct GOT. Heck, I would have done it.
You give Dumb & Dumber FAR too much credit.
Nothing was calculated, other than how fast they could leave GoT for Star Wars. I’m still bitter, and at this rate, I most likely always will be.
Fuck D&D
Those clever bastards. Cheating the pirates by content enshittification.
GoT never captured me past the first few episodes. What was bad about the ending?
That they yhrew away all the rules they established before like traveling now took 0 hours and soon. All of this because the last book wasn’t written yet so they had to write some story themselves and failed misserably.
HBO told the show runners(D&D) they could take as long as they wanted to finish the series. D&D had just landed jobs at the helm of a new Star Wars trilogy so they were eager to wrap up Thrones and start raking in that Disney cash. They made the last season shorter than other seasons, it sucked and they ended up losing the Star Wars deal.
Sweet sweet justice.
Considering the star wars stuff that’s been coming out, if you told me they were responsible for it, i’d believe you
Give Andor a try, thats the one show I really liked out of the stuff Ive seen so far, after that the only other show Ive been into is the Expanse(non star wars), after the first season
I can second the recommendation for Andor. Used to love Star Wars, lost all interest in it after the new trilogy (although rogue one was alright) and finally got around to watch Andor which I really loved.
Come on, Rogue One is one of the best Star Wars movies of all time.
Mando and Andor were awesome. what are you talking about? Only BOBF and that dumb Obi series sucked.
What ever happened to the D&D Star Wars trilogy?
They lost the deal for it, after how badly received the end of GoT was. Then again, the new SW trilogy managed to be shit entirely without their help.
Yeah, Disney rejected them to protect the trilogy, and then managed to completely destroy the trilogy between two and half directors, and both Disney and Lucasfilm constantly interfering with the screen writing. Episode 7 might have been derivative, but without Episode 8 kneecapping all of the plot setups, followed by Episode 9 kneecapping all of 8’s plot redirections, it would have at least been fun.
I mean, being honest, the prequel trilogy was mostly not great. But it was fun enough that people still love it. The sequels are so disjointed that it’s just hard to enjoy. Proof that even with all the money in the world, anyone can still fuck up.
You said it all. Episode 8 ruined everything forever. I didn’t even bother trying to watch episode 9 after that, and been majorly checked out of anything SW since. The last good SW movie was Rogue One…
As I understand it, they walked away from the Stars Wars deal to sign with Netflix to make another adaptation. One that I’m sad that they’ve hitched their names onto.
I remember people knew the ending due to leaks about a year ahead of time and claimed it was all BS since it was so ridiculous. We were all wrong
For a secound i forgot we are talking about Game of Thrones and not Star Wars Episode 9.
I went from avoiding leaks to a few episodes in not caring and read the leaks and laughed. Then joined freefolk to laugh at the show as it aired, which made it a much less miserable affair than it would have been. A nice season long The Room roasting for the show.
Watching it straight up would have been pure torture.
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I do think that sums it up pretty well, and as other have said, the last season had a “I don’t want to do this anymore, lets wrap this up vibe” and to make matters worse, they completely abandoned so many plots that you thought had a point to them. To me it felt so obvious that during the fall of kings landing, Cersi should have flipped out and Jamie should have killed her. History repeating itself. Maybe that was just too predictable for them to actually do it, but all the character development up to that point was the perfect setup for it and they just dropped it altogether.
You could build a museum of horrible decisions and fill it with the last two seasons of Game of Thrones. Whether you watched it or not, the show was a cultural touchstone, and the ending retroactively ruined everything that came before. Many shows have started well and ended poorly, but I’d argue that GoT was on pace to be an all-time top ten series, and there was absolutely nothing good to say about how it ended. Bad writing, bad acting, bad production values, sloppy editing, poor visual design, it was both rushed and too slow, and nothing made sense. If you paid someone to deliberately fuck up everything about the show, they would not have been as effective at it because it would have been obvious.
A surprising amount went wrong.
While there are a sea of complaints, the biggest for me was that all of the characters stopped having internal logic. Take Jamie, he had a character arc moving from a vain knight avoiding responsibility and having an incestuous relationship with his sister, to having depth, showing that he was wracked with guilt for breaking his oath to help people. Falling in love with a woman for her character and who she was. Being responsible and honorable again. Then the last season came around and he dropped all of his growth to be with his sister.
It’s like D&D decided that there would be a cool scene of him dieing with Cersi and didn’t care how he got there.
It was hilarious to see Tyrion find them with a light dusting of bricks on top. Comedy.
The show reached a point where they’d surpassed where the books were in the narrative and things fell apart. The political intrigue, backstabbing, and subversive nature of the story was done away with in favour of forcing plot points through to get everything wrapped up, with no consideration made on why those characters would act in the way they did.
Tldr; the whole 6 first season they set up the table for some really juicy stuff and in the last season, some side quests were either ignored or fast-tracked to fit in 1/3 of an episode. Realistically, you had content for at least 3+ more seasons. But since GRR Martin is so slow to write his books (I don’t blame him, just pointing out the obvious), the producers of the show had to cut corner and take huge liberties that didn’t make any sense
The best way to summarize it is the writing lol. And they tried to rush plot points way too fast.
Compare it to this… Watching a highly rated chef come up with the most amazing sounding and looking dinner meal over the course of a few hours. You are anxiously awaiting to take a bite and salivating for that moment. When you finally get served your plate and get to that scrumptious first bite, the biggest wave of disappointment hits and you lose your appetite.
I don’t know how else to explain it
The dish comes out and it’s Spam topped with Kraft singles.
Zero sympathy. If they wanted to reduce the amount of illegal streamers, all they’ve got to do is make their content more accessible.
Release it on multiple streaming platforms, not just their own. Ensure its released globally at the same time. And get rid of the geo-blocking.
The lack of reasonable legal alternatives is what drives piracy.
As evidenced by the brief moment in history when Netflix was all that and it drove video piracy all but to extinction.
This is the case still with Spotify, apple music, deezer, etc… Multiple services with few if any exclusives means almost all music piracy has stopped. Somehow, the record companies continue to survive.
I think we’re going to start to see music services going that way soon, for the first time I’ve started to see that songs in my primary play list are now not available in my region.
I admit I dont know what songs yet, am on a road trip at the moment, but it makes me worry that it’s going to get worse.
That´s so insane, right? I mean, they practically had us in the bag with netflix. People either had their own account or chipped in to use someone elses one BUT EITHER WAY, THEY PAID FOR IT! And then came one of the rare moments where more competition was actually bad.
I think with digital content platforms in general, competition means more headaches for customers.
The store front/streaming service is not what people sign up for, but the access to a certain movie, show or game. If the catalog of all available pieces of content gets scattered across multiple services you now have to use multiple apps, pay multiple subscription fees and search through multiple catalogs.
I’d say from a customer’s perspective, increased competition lead to a worse situation.
The thing here is that, for the most part, it’s not actually competition, but a collection of monopolies.
You want to watch show X? You have to go to the streaming service that has the monopoly on show X. It you want to watch that show, in many cases you can’t just substitute it for a different show.
If you have five stores selling all sorts of food, then that’s competition. If you instead have a butcher, a baker, a candy shop, a dairy shop and a fruits/vegetable shop, that’s splitting the turf. You can’t just substitute the ground beef for your burgers with skittles, because the butcher is more expensive than the candy shop.
Caveat to this argument: If you really don’t care about what you watch, then these different streaming services really are interchangable competitors and then the competition is good, because e.g. a shared Disney+ account is much cheaper than the now-non-shareable Netflix account.
It’s not the competition that’s bad! It’s the anti competitive laws that allowed it to spoil. Companies saw how profitable Netflix was and pulled their shows from the platform to artificially create a reason for consumers to use their own shitty services. Netflix was no longer able to purchase those titles.
I would need even more. Let me buy it digitally. Not streamed, not with some draconian DRM. Just let me buy the MKV files straight from HBO, and I won’t pirate them.
They have to be aware of how easy it is to rip a blu-ray, yet those are still for sale. So let’s just skip the middleman and give me legal remuxes.
Tbf Blu Ray is a good distribution media. It’s the DRM that’s ruining it.
The DRM pipedream has been going on for so long in the industry that it’s basically dogma at this point. Everybody knows it doesn’t work but they’re in too deep to question it.
Oh dear, don’t get me started on that. I had to buy expensive software to play back the few Blu-Rays i have. CyberDVD doesn’t even allow you to skip intro videos and anti-piracy crap. You know, the crap we didn’t do when we bought the medium or ignore anyway if we create our own backups or share the media illegally.
Also i hate region-locking. I bought the complete Daria DVD collection which lacks the original soundtrack btw. And i am not permitted to watch it because what? International copyright? Technological differences we overcame long ago?
I can switch the region of my blu-ray drive in my PC 5 times. After that it will stay in the last configured region. A very, VERY arbitrary limitation!
I mean… you can just pirate/download it, it takes literally 10 seconds once you know how… and to know how takes like 2 minutes lol
I wouldn’t be on this subreddit if I didn’t know that.
But I would also buy a lot more media if I could buy it in the way I want
Ensure its released globally at the same time
This was easily the biggest driver. For GOT, I had legal access but I was expected to wait over a month, by which time because the internet - the spoilers would have been completely unavoidable.
Reminds me of Shrek 2. Which premiered 6 months after the US in my country.
I wanted so badly to watch it in cinema, but internet talked about it, friends talked about it, and I had people coming over with burned copies wanting to share it with me…
Yeah, I did not see it in cinema. For some reason it didn’t do well here.
It just seems retarded not to do global releases at this point. Like we’re all connected as hell. How do you expect to make one country wait 6 extra months? Just dumb. Lost revenue for no reason.
I remember here in the Netherlands that you could only watch HBO through a specific internet provider (ziggo-Vodafone). I’d have to switch goddamn ISP’s to pay for their show. That gave me all the justification to pirate the shit out of it.
I can’t fathom why these media companies still love to do exclusivity agreements. There’s no way it’s more profitable than just allowing everyone to watch your show from any service, with commissions for the number of views.
I’d probably start paying for a streaming service again if I could watch every show in one place. But I’m not interested in playing musical subscriptions.
And someone who knows better please correct me if I’m wrong, but 10 years ago for streaming is an eternity ago.
I believe back when the show was new and hot you could only watch HBO WITH a cable subscription
There’s a reason people pirated it instead of just subscribing
Ok, I was right: this late 2014 article says they’d finally offer standalone “next year”
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/time-warner-hbo-stand-alone-subscription-netflix,27892.html
Edit: April 2015 is when it started. So quite a bit after GoT started
Yep, which is why many people had this exact experience: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones
luckily the showrunners were around to finish the job
lolz
There was a point in time when GOT was only available via an $80 a month pay tv subscription after the earlier seasons were aired on regular television. Once again, piracy is an access issue - not a theft issue.
Not only was it hard to get the subscription, but it was hard to get it in your country if you weren’t US
Canadian here. Cost us 10 or 20 bucks amonth as hbo was included in a package with other services.
Which as a canadian feels FUCKING WEIRD to brag about our telecoms for a change.
Crazy times
I don’t think that it’s reasonable to have to subscribe for one show. I know what you mean by your comment about Canadian telcos they’re dogshit.
I don’t think got was available in Australia iirc
They fail to mention that when GoT started in 2011, HBO wasn’t available at all without a cable TV subscription, so people who had already dropped cable didn’t have any other choice. HBO streaming without cable didn’t become available until 2015.
Yeah, I don’t think I’m all that special and I pirated the earlier seasons of GoT. The later seasons I watched legally, because by then it was available on a local streaming site I could well afford. If pirating wasn’t an option it wouldn’t have meant I would’ve spent the money to subscribe to a cable package that included HBO, (which would’ve cost a lot because you had to get some expensive bundle) I just wouldn’t have watched GoT at all. So they didn’t really lose anything from it.
And it’s possible I may not have watched the later seasons legally either, because “eh… too late to get into this thing now.”
HBO is a luxury thing and something like GoT could be the thing that’ll entice people that could afford it and were thinking of getting it anyway to subscribe. The most relevant thing that influences their subscription numbers is the average income of the middle class, not piracy.
Most likely the entire HBO streaming service wouldn’t have taken off, because they offered little to no avenues to consume their content to an increasingly no-cable subscription generation. It’s entirely likely that HBO would’ve died out along with traditional TV.
For a while there it was nigh impossible to legally get access to GOT in certain countries. Not to mention, when your only option is an insanity expensive streaming service, and the only thing you want there is one specific show, you’re likely to look for alternatives.
Legally watching HBO in Australia means supporting Rupert Murdoch.
Yeah, the only way we can get that is through Foxtel. Which is, and had always been a cable company.
Though it looks like various HBO shows are on various other streaming platforms - GoT appears to currently be on BINGE
And there are also a few on Stan and and netflix, but the vast majority of them are still locked to Foxtel.
Fun fact: Binge (and Kayo) is wholly owned by Foxtel. It’s Newscorp all the way down.
Aww fuck that sucks
Not even just “certain countries”, in the U S of fuckin A.
The first four seasons, arguably the best seasons, were only available to HBO subscribers. The only way to get HBO was to be a cable subscriber. So you were paying probably $100 a month to watch one show. There is NO WAY that was going to be successful. This was the rise of Netflix. I could pay $100 per year for their content. By 2014/2015 I was getting House of Cards, Orange is the New Black, Bojack Horseman, it was a great time.
Now lucky for HBO Game of Thrones is a powerhouse. So what do they do in 2015? They launch HBO Now… as an iOS exclusive. I want to pay you but you cut out half your audience? Guess I’m pirating Season 5 too.
Finally by season 6 HBO Now is available for everyone. I’ve now watched the majority of the show by pirating it. I don’t fault anyone who continued to do so. And this was the American experience. I can only imagine how other countries handled it.
Game of Thrones wasn’t in jeopardy because of piracy. Game of Thrones only succeeded due to piracy. It was a fantastic show (in the early seasons) but doomed to “cancelled too soon” without piracy.
I bought it on DVD for $30 / season. It included a helpful family tree leaflet.
Same pirated the first few seasons, but bought the box sets as Christmas presents for older family members. They made their money out of me.
undefined> It included a helpful family tree leaflet.
You’d think in some instances the family tree would look more like a wreath though.
that seems like a spoiler ngl lol
Yup, I would have had to subscribe to sky for at least two years to watch it. Their weird monthly streaming service did not even include GoT and it was 720p max and it would not allow you to watch anything, if you got a 2nd monitor connected. That shit is as anti-consumer as it gets.
Instead it was destroyed by two greedy fucks rushing the ending two seasons early so they could move on to their next cash grab flop!
Yup. Money was never a problem for D&D. HBO was willing to give them all the time and money they needed. That is a very rare thing in entertainment.
I was gonna say lol. Damn, pirates almost spared us that ending. Too bad.
What WAS their next cash grab though?
It was supposed to be Star Wars but they messed up GoT so badly they lost the Star Wars bid.
What a shame that somebody else got the badly-messing-up-Star-Wars gig.
I believe they’re doing 3 Body Problem next, another adaptation but for a Chinese sci-fi this time
That´s on my “want to read” list.
Highly recommend it, finished it earlier this year and have been blown away by how much I enjoyed the series
Its such handwaving bullshit, I wanted my money back at the end of the book.
You are aware that we are in a piracy group here, right? We don´t want our money back. Because we didn´t pay for it in the first place!
Sometimes I pirate something that is so terrible that I still feel I’m owed compensation for the time I wasted watching it and the bandwidth I used to download it.
I’d argue it was destroyed, in the last 2 seasons.
Right around when I stopped downloading it
Agreed. I’d also argue that it would have been better if pirates managed to do the job before that.
It was only possible to watch GoT in the Netherlands when you were with one specific provider. That’s what caused piracy.
Luckily, the writers got there first.
I don’t think HBO was even available in my country when GoT started. Towards the end it might’ve been. But you still had to also have the TV service from a specific ISP, not JUST the Internet service. Now there are more options, but it’s still always bundled with some other shit you don’t need.
THIS. I remember, when I started watching GoT, it was a shitshow to actually get the content in ANY way, not even speaking about getting access legally. This changed with time, but the show often was exclusive to Sky, which is one of the most garbage paid tv services I know of. I can buy it, but I REALLY don’t want to support Sky for their bad service. There really should be no exclusivity to those things.
Damn, we should have tried harder to destroy it before Season 8 aired then. /s
i did my part… twice
I helped several other people do their part, too. It got to a point where I actually had preloaded memes for certain points during the show that made sense. If you’re familiar with both franchises you know exactly which scene it was that I played the theme from Neverending Story behind, and it was as glorious as you would imagine.
As an example, the only reason there was ever any interest in Top Gear stateside was because of piracy. In my youth, that was the only way to watch it, and it showed the BBC that there was an interest, which led to it being made available through legitimate means in the US.
Piracy isn’t about free shit.
I don’t remember the band, I think it was Iron Maiden, that discovered that brazillians fucking love them by Napster data and they started touring in Brazil selling entire stadiums full even today. There’s even a joke in Rio de Janeiro about how Iron Maiden visits the Barra de Tijuca area (the place where big concerts are played) more often than regular Rio’s habitats.
Yes. That’s Iron Maiden. They go where people are torrenting their music and sell a shit ton of tickets and merch.
literal proof that piracy leads to legal profit?
meanwhile the another band who hates pirates:
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Those 24/7 Top Gear streams on justin.tv before they shut down and rebranded as Twitch turned me into a lifelong fan.
I have a prime subscription in part because is gives me access to both Top Gear and TGT.
Yeah I’d definitely agree. The amount of memes and just general sense of people buzzing about the show when it was at its peak was just unreal. And I’d argue that the fact it was being pirated and passed around so much was a big driver behind that. There’s no real way to test it, but without that big cultural drive would the show have done nearly so well? My suspicion is that it wouldn’t have. Not to mention all the knock-on effects such as launching the careers of many actors, who will go on to drive other hit shows etc.
Just seeing the issue as “someone watched a torrent of it so we lost the subscription fee” is extremely myopic IMO.
Game of Thrones was destroyed by the writers lol
The call came from inside the house!!!
The files are in the computer
I mean, theres more than a few reasons Martin hasn’t finished the books. A major one being that the style of writing doesn’t benefit from ending, its mostly a constant series of escalations without ever resolving anything. At a certain point no resolution will ever be satisfying.
Not saying the show ending couldn’t have been better, but like shows like Lost or Heroes, or all those shows like that, no ending could ever live up to the hype generated during its run.
It was ruined before the ending.
We were so close to saving the world from the travesty that was the last couple seasons… I weep for what shouldn’t have been.
